SPEAKER_01: 0:00

It is not anybody else's job to dance around your emotional triggers. It is your job to figure out where your emotional triggers come from. And the answer I always get, without question, is if they loved me, they would care. And they're not wrong. But if you loved yourself, it wouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_00: 0:21

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life, the podcast dedicated to helping you embrace this transformative season with purpose, passion, and joy. In each episode, we explore stories, strategies, and insights to help turn your empty nest into an exciting new chapter. Whether you're redefining your identity, pursuing new passions, or finding peace in the pause, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the empty nest coach, Jay Ramsden.

SPEAKER_03: 0:44

Hey there, my empty nest friends. Today I'm calling bullshit on the idea that life is empty once the kids leave home. And to help me do just that is the author of the book, Break Your Bullshit Box, Amber Furman. Amber is an attorney, success architect, author, speaker, and master and LP coach who is redefining what it means to live a truly successful life. Amber began her career as a criminal defense and immigration lawyer in Las Vegas, but despite her professional achievements, she realized she was stuck in what she calls her bullshit box. A collection of excuses and beliefs keeping her from true fulfillment, and that she needed to break free from her mental barriers and design a life of true alignment and joy. Okay, folks, you ready for some powerful insights into how we hold ourselves back and how to shatter those hidden limitations? Well, let's get into it. Amber, welcome to this emptiness life.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.

SPEAKER_03: 1:40

I am too, especially because you you talk about a bullshit box, and people may be like, all right, I didn't know that your episode was going to be explicit this time, Jay, but you know what it is. Sometimes we have to call bullshit on ourselves. Exactly what is your bullshit box and how have you helped people break free from those beliefs?

SPEAKER_01: 1:58

Yeah, so I mean, first of all, what it is, you know, I this concept really came to fruition for me when I was talking about being so good at compartmentalizing. You know, I could take all of my trauma, I could take all of my experiences and put it in this box that I never intended on opening, never intended on sharing with the world. And then I focused on success, focused on the other things. If it's not education and career, you know, it's kids. It's whatever demands our attention at that time that we're able to put ourselves on hold for. Those things are the things that make you human and connectable and people want to hear. And it's the bullshit that keeps us from sharing that. The things that are loud, the gremlins of if I tell somebody this, then they will think this about me. Those are the lies that we've been told that are holding us back.

SPEAKER_03: 3:40

Okay, that's perfect because that happens so much in this emptiness life, is people get to that point and they compartmentalize that, oh, I am having a hard time. And right, everybody sees it as, oh, this is like amazing, and why are you having a hard time? You should be happy and joyful and all the things. And some people aren't. So there's so much shame and guilt in there, and they just stuff it down and they don't talk about it, and they put on the I'm fine face that they get stuck with. Yeah. So how do people start to even I don't know, is the bullshit box like Pandora's box? If we open it up, are bad things gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01: 4:16

No, it's exactly opposite. If we don't open it, bad things are gonna happen, right? If we don't open, let me go back. If we don't open the compartmentalization box, bad things are gonna happen, right? This is where my journey really started was I had the career. I had everything I had worked for. I was making the money I thought that I should have made. I had the law degree, I was the first person in my family to go to college. And instead of this, you know, success and series and rainbows and all the things, I started having panic attacks because I didn't open this box and have conversations. So I believe that our bullshit should be kind of shoved in this box. We should acknowledge that it exists, but we refuse to give it light, kind of like gremlins, right? Don't feed it after midnight and don't get it wet.

SPEAKER_03: 5:04

Perfect. People will get that reference. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Yes. There's actually a chapter in my book called All Gremlins Are Assholes, even the Cute Ones, right? Because it's those fuzzy excuses that we think are keeping us safe and warm that feel good, that are the most dangerous because we don't know they're holding us back. We think it's just warm and comfortable, and that's where we're supposed to live, right? Um, and those are the ones that we unintentionally feed after midnight and then they destroy our lives. So when we start really getting honest, I think the first thing we get to do is acknowledge that society has done a huge disservice to both men and women about what life is supposed to look like. Women are supposed to put themselves on hold and take care of a family. Men are supposed to not feel their emotions, and they're supposed to be the providers. And if either of those two identities get pushback, then we start questioning whether we are normal or whether we fall where we're supposed to. Well, all of those things are external to us, and that's great when you have some little human to raise to focus on. But when those little humans are now self-sufficient and you no longer have somebody to put yourself on hold for, then where does your entire identity go? And that is the equivalent of my career height, my panic attacks, because I had everything and did everything I was supposed to do, and nothing changed. So when we focus on something else external of ourselves and nothing changes, eventually we've got to deal with us.

SPEAKER_03: 6:45

Oh, yeah. So that that hits on, I think, a pretty a pretty big point for people is like the self-identity of being a parent as opposed to being a person. You don't deal with who you are, maybe who you wanted to be. So lots of so many people have kids early on, right after college, even before college, they don't go to college, they've never had a chance to be a kid, learn what they like, all of these things. And that all gets pressed down. And then when they're actually forced to face it, that's when things get real.

SPEAKER_01: 7:14

Yeah, and it it also goes a little bit further than that. So what's interesting for me is I'm not a parent. I never wanted kids. So I don't get to come at this from the parent standpoint. I get to come at this from the identity standpoint, the human behavior standpoint, but more importantly, the daughter standpoint. Because I had the mom that had me young. And I know even though she was very loving, I never felt truly connected with her. And my dad died when I was 18. And I remember having a conversation with her maybe four years ago. And I said, you know, I'm really jealous of the relationship that you have with my brothers. And she said, Well, why? And I was like, Well, you were the mother to them that I feel like I didn't get. And she said, Amber, if your dad hadn't died, I would have been the same mother to them that I was to you. I knew you were mine. I knew that I loved you, but I didn't want to grow up to take care of you. Like I wanted to live my life. And to me, that was the most bringing statement. Like most people will look at that and say, How could a mother say that about their child? But to me, it was, oh, the lack of connection that I felt, the burden that I felt like I was sometimes was never about me. It was about my mom dealing with the fact that she had me young and was doing everything she could to protect me from her dreams dying. But unconsciously, that gets passed on to your kids, whether you want it to or not. So we get to have these real conversations from a trauma place of I was young and I wasn't perfect. And forgive me because I've never been a parent of somebody your age before. If we try to shield parents and kids from these conversations, that trauma just grows because I will always think it's about me and the parent will always think that they're trying to shield their child from trauma.

SPEAKER_03: 9:11

Yeah, and I think that's such an important point here. I thank you for sharing that story because it highlights for a lot of people, ooh, it's okay, right? It's okay for me to share and say, you know, I wasn't perfect as a parent. I wasn't the best. Here's where I messed up, here's where I could have done better, here's how you can learn from me. And then on the flip side, it's like when the kids do leave home, not just to sit around and wait to be involved in their lives, but to go out and say, here's how I can live life to show you what's possible as well after that.

SPEAKER_01: 9:42

Yeah. And holding on to the fact that you are still a person, right? There's so many lessons I've learned. You know, I always tell people if you think you've healed from something, write a book about it because it will show you just how much growth you still have to do. And I can proudly say that my mom and I have a relationship that I could have never dreamed of. I love and admire her, and she is one of the strongest people that I know. And anybody who knows the way that I grew up and how I felt about my mom growing up would be shocked to hear me say that because uh she was, you know, I have a keynote that says every victim needs a villain. And my mom was my villain, man. And and when I wrote my book, I I made her read it and I said, I really need you to read this before the rest of the world does because you're in it a lot. I can't talk about my growth without talking about the trauma. And she said, I didn't know you were in so much pain. And I said, I didn't want you to know because you would have tried to fix it. And how can you fix it and also be the problem at the same time? Because if you can fix it, then I'm the problem. And I wasn't ready to be the problem yet. I still needed you to be the problem. So there's all these conversations that we get to have. And I think what it really comes down to, because I will never forget my first live event. My mom came out to support me. And it was all about designing your life and figuring out what success means to you and who you are and what you want in life. And people kept asking my mom, Well, what do you want? What are your goals? And she's like, I just want my kids to be happy. Well, what are your goals? I just want my kids to be happy. And over and over again, people were like, Yeah, but what do you want? I just want my kids to be happy. And she had this breakdown. And she was like, if one more person asked me what I want, I don't want anything but my kids to be happy. And that is a problem, whether we see it or not. Like you have to have an identity because what happens when you don't have control over your kids' happiness anymore? Who are you outside of that? And that's why I see the biggest crash when kids leave the house is your whole identity is in your kids being happy. You stopped being human, and now you're just expected to be human again because they're 18 and self-sufficient.

SPEAKER_03: 11:59

And also, there's this whole waiting game, too, of waiting for them to like finish school or do well there, or waiting for them to get engaged, or waiting for them to get married, or waiting for them to have your grandkids. There's too much waiting. And that is because you haven't released or found your identity as just a human, as opposed to being a parent. And so that's I love that. Did your mom like, did she break down because people were asking the question, or did she break down because she was like, Oh shit, I better figure this out.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Um, she broke down because what I can perceive, I don't know. I'm looking for a head. Yeah, she doesn't want anything else. Like, she has always been 100% okay being a wife and a mother, which is what made it so hard when my dad died. You know, part of my mom and my struggle is I was 18. I was a grieving daughter who lost my dad suddenly. Went to bed one night. My dad was my father, went to woke up the next morning, he was gone. Um, she was a wife and mother of an eight and a 10-year-old little boy, two little boys who had just lost their dad. I was the least of her worries, but I still needed my mom, right? Of course. So here I am, a grieving daughter that can't understand why my mom doesn't love me, because she doesn't want to take care of me or nurture me, because that's not her personality. And now I'm the least of her concerns because I'm self-sufficient. And in my selfish brain, because humans are selfish, it took me 20 years to realize that my mom was trying to be a grieving widow, take care of two kids, support herself, support the kids. Like the fact that she couldn't give it any energy to me is because she only had so much to give, and I was the one that was gonna take care of myself. And once I understood that, my anger turned to compassion. And so I think that you know, I talk to parents all the time and they say, I'm just afraid I'm gonna mess my kids up. And I'm like, You are.

unknown: 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:00

And some level you will.

SPEAKER_01: 14:02

And yeah, and if you try not to, you'll just mess them up in different ways. The best that we can do is help them find the tools and resources to unmess themselves up at some point in time along along the way. And the best way we can do that is by being human and and being ourselves and having hard conversations. I think the natural parental thought is let me shield my kids from pain. But they see it and it it never ends out the way that they that they want.

SPEAKER_03: 14:37

No, no. But I I'm curious about your mom. You she you said she played the villain in your book. That's part of the story. Yeah. Was she the impetus to write the book, or did that just come from something else?

SPEAKER_01: 14:49

No, I think I wanted to share my story with being a high-functioning, highly successful woman in a male-dominated profession that never wanted kids. So I'm pushing out against I was raised in a very religious community. So I'm pushing back against all the stereotypes. I don't want kids. I'm going to school. Career's more important than family. Um, all the stereotypes. And then I get it, and I have panic attacks and anxiety attacks in a profession where you're not supposed to feel things. So now I'm talking about human feelings in the legal profession where we don't have those things.

SPEAKER_03: 15:32

Yeah, you're not supposed to. It's just black and white, right? Right and wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 15:36

And so as I healed and I kind of found my way in being human again. You know, I did a podcast interview with a pharmacist who said that grad school trained the human out of her. And I related to that. I think being a parent sometimes trains the human out of you as well, because you take all of your focus and put it on somebody else, and you're not thinking about yourself. So for me, when I got to the other end of it, I just wanted to share my experiences. I wanted to share my experiences with grief. Losing my dad was a pivotal moment in my life. He was my best friend and the only parents I felt like I had growing up, even though that's not true. So for me, it was like, how do I take my life experiences and show people the way that limiting beliefs build in our brain based on our life experiences? And the only way I know that is to be completely raw and transparent and honest about my experiences. And because so much of my blame game was on my mom because she was an easy target. I couldn't accomplish my goal without sharing that story as of course.

SPEAKER_03: 16:49

It's easier to blame somebody else than to blame ourselves. 100% for taking responsibility or becoming that adult who's like, okay, I do have to take responsibility for my own bullshit. Yeah, whatever that looks like. It's easier to be like, oh, because of, because of, because of.

SPEAKER_01: 17:04

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what's so interesting is I finally got to the point last year because my brothers had a different relationship with my mom than I did. And I finally got to the point last year after a conversation with my brother, who described my mom as the strongest person that he knew. And I'm like, really? Like your mom? Because my mom and your mom are the same person, and my mom's not the strongest person they know. So we started talking about our experiences. And then it hit me like, how strong does one have to be to become a single parent overnight to raise three kids that have never gone to jail, that are self-sufficient, that, you know, don't blame. I mean, I think we were kind of always taught that your life experiences are your life experiences, they're not going to be an excuse for really bad behavior that doesn't exist in our world. And I was raised that way from a young age. I grew up on a farm. I think that had a lot to do with it. You have responsibilities, you're going to take care of them, you can have life, but you're still going to be productive and a good member of society. So when my brother and I started comparing notes, I it started to hit me how unfair I had been to her because I was still grieving. And when I stopped the identity of this grieving daughter and looked at what she went through, all of a sudden she was the strongest person I know. And then once that lifted, I was faced with all of these pieces of evidence of what my life could have looked like if I had the coddling mother that I thought I wanted. And I look at people who can't make their own decisions and can't survive on their own. And I look at the resilience that I have and the independence that I have. And I know that comes from feeling like I wasn't supported, even though I was. So I could have the mother that made all the decisions for me and loved me more than anybody else in the world. And then I would have the life that I see in some people, and I don't want that life. So we can't we like we have to be grateful for the things we think weren't the way we wanted them because they created the strengths that we have now. And when I look at it that way, my mom is the strongest person I know, and I'm so thankful that she gave me the resilience that I have.

SPEAKER_03: 19:22

The resilience piece, that's huge. I I'm I'm I'm curious here when you think about your journey. And parents will go through this, they'll raise the kids, their identity will be wrapped up in that. The kids will go off, and then they get stuck and they find themselves just kind of puttering around the house, you know. Oh, I hear it all the time. I just know how to like just all I do is just clean because that seems like the task that I should be doing, waiting for somebody to come home or for somebody to do things. But they feel out of control in doing that. It's the only thing they can control, but they also feel out of control. So, what's one practical step that someone could like even reclaim control? Of my life and maybe who I wanted to be. I love being a mom, I love being a dad, but there's something else inside itching to get out.

SPEAKER_01: 20:42

Yeah. So I'm going to give them the same answer that I would give any business owner because I think at the heart of it, it is the exact same scenario. Two things can be true at one time. You can be a good parent and be an incredible solo human at the same time. And what it really comes down to is purpose and intention. So where I start with my business owner clients is I have them analyze every area of their life and how fulfilled they feel in it. This could be relationships, career, money, knowledge, all these things, right? And normally what I find is that high-performing business owners feel really good in money and career and knowledge, and sometimes not so great in family and relationships and spirituality and all that stuff. What I find in my parents is that it's sometimes flipped. They feel really good in relationships and home life and spirituality because that's what they've built. But now they have this fun and excitement and individuality and career that they're not so fulfilled in because they never let them have it. So once we know the areas that we are feeling like we're lacking in, then it becomes what is the purpose and intention of every decision that we make? So we get in these habits, these patterns where we wake up and we kind of go through the motions of our life. And we don't realize we're going through the motions until we sit back and we ask ourselves, what does success mean to me in this action? I'm gonna go to a lunch meeting. What do I want to get out of this lunch meeting? What's the purpose of me going? What is my intention of going into it? And just by asking that question, sometimes we can say, you know what? I don't even want to be there. So maybe this isn't a good use of my time. When we're talking about parents and we're talking about the way they interact with their kids, what's the purpose of me having this conversation with my kids, right? What do I want to get out of it? Is it because society told me that I'm supposed to have this relationship with my kids? Or is it because I think this is what they need right now? There's no wrong answer in any of these. But until we step out of the trance, out of the pattern that we're in, this like almost hypnotic state that we go through life in, and we start looking at the purpose and intention of every one of our choices, we can't change the way that we feel about our life or the future of it.

SPEAKER_03: 23:21

Yeah, I often refer to that as being intentionally curious, like always, about everything. How's how's that? You talked about the conversation with the kid. How's that thought serving you? How is that conversation serving you? What I love that the purpose intent piece because it's oh, if I really sit down for a moment and decide, okay, here's what I want my life to look at. My purpose was being a parent, you know, a mom or a dad. That was my purpose for so long. What do I want it to be now?

unknown: 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 23:48

And how do I get intentional about achieving that?

SPEAKER_01: 23:51

Yeah, I have a planner that I created because I needed it. You know, I had been using different planners and they all had pieces of what I liked, but they didn't have everything that I wanted in one place. So I created what I felt like I needed. And because my world revolves around defining success, you know, I define my I define success for myself annually, quarterly, I define success for myself monthly. I define success for myself in the moment. So my planner has in the like daily planning section, today will be a success if or when. And then at the end of the day, today was a success because. And the first question forces me to think about what I want to get out of my day. And the last question forces me to be grateful about something in my day. And if I can start my day with intent and I can end it with gratitude, whatever happens in between those two things is going to create success on a big turn. But what people do, both personally and professionally, is they set New Year's resolutions and then they set monthly goals, and then they forget to focus on day-to-day actions. And then they're like, why didn't my New Year's resolution happen? Like I wished it, I manifested it, like I thought about it, I hoped for it.

SPEAKER_03: 25:13

I didn't take action towards it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:17

What was I supposed to do besides think about it every single day? And and you know, I'm not perfect about this. Nobody is. In an ideal world, I would look at every single meeting on my schedule and say, success to me in this meeting means this. And if I can't define success for a meeting, then I shouldn't be going to it. It is a waste of my time and energy because no outcome from that hour of my time is going to be good enough for me because I don't know what I want to get out of it. So parents, particularly, their entire life has become about somebody else by nature. So I think it starts as early as we can get this conversation into parents' heads to reserve some time for themselves, even as they're raising their kids, so that they know who they want, not.

SPEAKER_03: 26:10

Totally agree with that statement. Start sooner rather than later, for sure. I'm curious, what was your definition of success for today?

SPEAKER_01: 26:19

My definition of success for today was that every relationship I have, I've been in a reconnecting phase. So every relation, every meeting that I had today was intentional and for the purpose of true connection, that I left feeling like I had shown up for myself and the other person for the connection's sake. One of the things I've learned about myself coming from a place of abandonment, me and my therapist have really nailed down this lovely trauma, um, is that I leave meetings and conversations convinced that I'll never talk to people again because people have always just left. I can't blame my dad for dying, but there's no way that I can hide the fact that one day he was there and the next he wasn't. And I wish that that was my first funeral. It was my 10th between the ages of seven and 18. So my entire childhood, as supported as I was, was filled with people being there for one conversation and being gone for the next. And I didn't realize that every business meeting I had, I would walk away going, okay, well, I'm probably never going to talk to that person again. And so I've really been in this place of I'm gonna connect, I'm gonna set intentional follow-up strategies, I'm gonna make sure this relationship continues because this I'm ready to break the cycle of having really good conversations and then just letting those relationships die because I don't know if I'm ever gonna see them again and I don't want to hurt.

SPEAKER_03: 27:53

It's interesting because I I was a military brat, so we moved constantly. I went the opposite direction. It's like I have to be intentional about like my whole life being in touch with people that I left behind that I left behind because I was moving because I like them, I liked what they brought to the world, whatever. So I've been the one who's always so I love I I love it. Not that you've been, you know, have this feeling of abandonment. I don't love that. But the fact that there's two it's a good example. There's always two sides to every way to look at things, too. So the reconnecting piece I want to hit on. Yeah, because that can be something that parents do when the kids leave home. It's like, how do you reconnect with your partner? How do you reconnect with your college friends, your friends from high school, whomever, right? You're making it an intention, they can do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01: 28:44

Yeah. You know, and I think it starts with, and this is the hardest part, and this is the bullshit part. We have created a story in our head about how that person feels about us, right? So we dropped the ball at some point in time on connecting. And in our head, we've created the story that we are this horrible person that they now hate forever because we forgot their birthday. Um, and we're gonna call them and they're gonna be like, You don't even care about me. What are you doing calling me? Well, in all reality, how many times have we then sucked it up, made that call, and they're like, I really needed to talk to a friend today? I'm so glad you called. Or it's so good to hear from you. Like, I just had lunch with somebody last week where I said, I am so sorry that I feel like every time we sit down and talk, we have these beautiful connections. And then I feel like I push you away and I drop the ball on reconnecting. And I'm sorry that I haven't been the friend that you deserve. And she goes, I'm really sorry that you feel that way because I've never felt that way about you. And we write these stories, like this is the bullshit. We write these stories in our head. This person thinks this about me because it's how we feel about ourselves. So the first step to reconnecting is to dropping the guilt and the shame and the story and saying, We're human and they're going through their own life, they probably didn't even realize we were gone as much as we think they did because they're raising their own kids. So pick up the phone, make the call. And if they say the time for our friendship has passed, like at least now you know, and you can stop wasting time on it.

SPEAKER_03: 30:22

Yeah, exactly. Or even they probably perceived it as, well, you were there when I reached out to you. Yeah. As opposed to I didn't do it enough back this way, but when I needed you, you were there. So then, of course, you I've never seen you that way.

unknown: 30:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 30:36

So it makes perfect sense. So it's it's a great strategy for people to consider. Is yeah, just pick up the phone.

SPEAKER_01: 30:41

There's a really good book that I suggest my business owners read that is coming up in this conversation, still must be relevant for parents as well, called You're Invited. And it's written by a guy named John Levy. Have you read this?

SPEAKER_03: 30:56

I have not, no.

SPEAKER_01: 30:57

Okay. It's written by a guy named John Levy, and he created these influencer dinners, which have become wildly successful that now it's by invite only. And it's meant to strip the external identities and allow you to connect with the human. So you he brings like 10 to 12 people together, they book dinner together, and you are not allowed to tell anybody what you do for a living until you sit down to eat. So the entire time you're cooking dinner, you're talking about your life, your passions, your family, what makes you tick. Nobody knows what you do. And then you find out you're sitting with like some of the smartest people in the world. And and this is done by design because you can have like the smartest person on the planet will look at somebody and feel imposter syndrome because they see something that they wish they were in somebody else. So it's meant to strip all that and allow you to be human. He talks a lot about the psychology of connection in this book. And one of the things that he says is that humans need to be needed. As a species, we need to be needed. We also hate to ask for help. So if you want deeper connections, the way to get deeper connections is to ask for more favors because you give the other person the opportunity to be needed. And it's contrary to everything we've been told and raised, which is don't be a burden, don't need other people. But how have we felt when somebody's reached out and said, I was having a bad day, and I really need a friend to talk to? Are you available? As opposed to how do we feel when we make that call? We feel like a burden when we make it, but we feel thankful when it's made to us. What makes us so special that we think we should deny people of the right to feel thankful because we felt like a burden?

SPEAKER_03: 32:54

And one of the things, one of the very first things I did with my very first coach was to learn how to say thank you, right? When I was getting ready to leave a position, and I was like, I don't want to deal with all the people, all the things, you know, that you want to people are like, oh, this, that, or whatever about you. And just being able to take a compliment and say thank you, because when you don't, then you rob that person of the ability to say thank you. It's the same thing. You rob that person of the ability to be helpful, and what a powerful thought that is.

SPEAKER_01: 33:22

Yeah, and it's I this goes back to the programming, right? So, you know, we are all programmed throughout our life. I wish that we could shield our kids from programming, but it's generational. So your beliefs from an neurolinguistics programming standpoint, your beliefs, your values, your morals, they're normally formed by the time you're eight. And then from there, we have limiting decisions that pop up, which something happens. For example, we make a sales call, somebody yells at us, and now we suck at sales and nobody ever wants to talk to us again. And we carry that for as long as we decide to believe it. The core of who we are, unless we intentionally face it and adjust it, is normally written by the age of eight. The starting point is where it gets a little murky. The starting point is zero. Zero varies. Some people believe in generational trauma, some people believe in past lifetimes, some people believe that life begins at conception, some people believe that life begins at birth. Your definition of zero and somebody else's definition of zero is completely different. So I remember when I was first learning neurolinguistics programming and I was getting certified in this, and I was working with somebody who we were talking about their relationship with anger. And I was following my script and I asked her, you know, when was the first time that you experienced anger? If you were to know, was it before, during, or after your birth? She goes, before. And I'm like, huh, that's not possible. In my head, I'm like, that isn't a thing. Like, I'm an attorney. I require scientific facts, and that's not a thing. And I said, okay, like Amber, keep going, keep following the script. And I said, past lifetimes or past generations. And she goes, past lifetimes. And I'm like, this is such a crock, a crap. And I and I said, Okay, Amber, keep following the script. I said, How many lifetimes? And she goes, four. And I said, Can you see the event? She goes, Yeah, I'm on a pirate ship. And at this point, I got up. And I was like, No. So I go talk to my trainer and I'm like, is this real? She goes, Does it matter? And I'm like, yes, it matters. Like I live in the world of science and citations and and all the things. It matters. And she goes, and this statement changed everything about how I communicate. She said if she thinks it's real, it's dictating every decision that she makes. What you think is irrelevant. And I was like, I don't think it is, but I'll buy in for a minute. I go that. And I finished this exercise. And it took me a while to really buy into the fact that the heart of communication is understanding that you see the world differently than I do. And I can disagree with the way that you see it, but I cannot disagree with your right to see it that way. So when we look at our political world right now, or when we raise our kids and we don't agree with their choices, or when we're in a business partnership and we're wondering why somebody keeps making the same crappy money decisions every single day with our shared money, we can disagree with the way that they see the world, but we can't communicate with them unless we respect their right to see it that way.

SPEAKER_03: 36:54

That's oh, so powerful for people to look at that. And and I think that's such an important topic for us to consider as the kids leave home is to say, Oh, yes, they're leaving home, and they're gonna make choices that I may not agree with, that I may agree with. There's different levels of that. And being able to look at that and say, Oh, before I give advice, because you know, parents were really good at that. We give a lot of it, but being able to hold off on that because it is their choice to see it that way.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

Yeah. You know, if your listeners are brave, and I will preface this by saying it requires a lot of courage, a lot of bravery, and a lot of patience with yourself. When you start to feel the need to control a situation, shelter your children from the choices that they're about to make and the consequences of those choices, I would venture that nine times out of ten, it doesn't actually come down to your kids. It comes down to your identity as a parent in your ability to protect your kids. So I often find myself asking the question when I'm emotionally heightened about anything, what about this is about me? Because it's never about them, right? So I always tell people that somebody else's actions are about them. My emotional response to those actions is 100% about me.

SPEAKER_03: 38:23

Always.

SPEAKER_01: 38:25

My kids get to make choices. Like parents obviously never want to put them in a situation where or allow them to stay in a situation where they are physically in danger. But often we try to shield the people that we love from the consequences we can see. It's like a train wreck, right? That you can see happening but can't stop. And the desire to stop it very rarely actually has anything to do with preventing pain for your kids. I we say it does. That's the conscious belief. If we really dig deep, what it really has to do is what are people going to think about me if my kid acts this way?

SPEAKER_03: 39:05

Oh, yeah, it's always the parental reflection back of yeah. Well, the kids will say that too. The kids will do that when they're teenagers just to piss you off to be like, oh, teenagers are worse. Aren't they horrible? You you you embarrass me by X, Y, and Z. It's interesting how in reverse to say, oh, if a child fails or is a good quote unquote good enough for whatever reason, it's a reflection on me, as opposed to be like, no, it's a reflection on them. They're a human. I think they have free will. They get to choose and do as they want.

SPEAKER_01: 39:39

And they get to, and this is probably one of the hardest things for parents to accept or people to accept. I say parents because I know who your listeners are, people. They get to have the values they want to have, even if they are not the values we want for them. You know, I work with a lot of people in my trainings who come because one of my favorite things ever is when somebody comes to my introductory training and they're like, this is such good stuff. And I'm like, so do we get to see you in the full training? No, but it would be great for my wife. She needs it so much. We spend so much time trying to make other people fit. And I have this conversation with people that are setting boundaries all the time. Is, you know, I'll tell them it is not anybody else's job to dance around your emotional triggers. It is your job to figure out. Where your emotional triggers come from, and the answer I always get without question is if they loved me, they would care, and they're not wronged. But if you loved yourself, it wouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_03: 40:48

That is powerful. So powerful and so true, right? When we look inwards and say, Yeah, we have to at some point take the emotional responsibility for ourselves to say, how is this triggering me and why? And how do I work through that? It's not always like everybody can look at somebody else and say, okay, they did something, said something, whatever, towards me. And then I'm gonna have a physiological and then a thought about it, an emotional response to it. And it's my job to regulate that, not them to regulate what they're gonna say or do.

SPEAKER_01: 41:19

And and you know, I'll address the elephant in the room right now for the people who are listening, going, because it always happens when we start digging about talking about this. The easiest thing to say is you don't know. And you're right, I don't. The emotional feeling that a parent feels when they are letting a child make mistakes, I will never know what that feels like. And and I respect the fact that it is hard as hell to do. I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't feel emotions about it while you do it, but it requires an honesty of knowing what those emotions are really about.

SPEAKER_03: 41:53

Yeah. And I think that's a great clarifying point, 100%. Earlier in our conversation, you were talking about the planner that you made, and you said something. You probably say it all the time, and I thought it was really curious. You said, I created what I thought I needed.

SPEAKER_01: 42:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:10

How where else has that shown up in your life?

SPEAKER_01: 42:14

Often, you know, it's these have been the conversations I've been having today. So I'm newly in a relationship after being single for eight years. I am hyper-independent. I my life experiences, both from a loss perspective as a child and a relationship choices perspective as an adult, have taught me that I can't rely on people. And so creating what I need and making sure that I have what I need and then sharing that with others if it's also what they need is the place that I've built life. I introduced my new boyfriend to a good friend of mine, and he asked me, I'm gonna, he says, I'm gonna talk about him as if he's not at the table. Are you letting your guard down to let him lead? And I said, Not enough, because I that's the journey. So I think there's this level of I and we've talked about this, him and I have talked about this, that I will always want you and I will never let myself need you. And in order for me to date somebody, they have to be okay not being needed because that's who I am, and I don't want to change it. I could, I don't want to. So, yes, my life has been creating what I need and feeling self-sufficient at almost every stage of my life.

SPEAKER_03: 43:44

But I I think too, that's such an important message. Like now, as parents, you know, we've gone through, we raised our kids, you created the life that you wanted, and now it's time to create the life you need.

SPEAKER_01: 43:56

Yeah. And and I think, you know, what's interesting for me, and my mom and I talk about this often, is I've never succumbed to peer pressure. I've I have to an extent, but I've always had my boundaries. She always used to comment that I could be a part of the bad boys crew, I could be a part of the church crew, I could be a part of the sporty crew, I could be a part of the nerdy crew, I played volleyball, I also was in chess club. Like I went to church and I also hung out with people around bonfires that were drinking, and I never felt the need to partake in any of that. I could be a chameleon in all of these different environments until it pushed up against my identity. And one identity piece that has never varied for me is that I didn't want children. Ever. I think the first time that I told my mom I didn't want kids, I was eight or nine. And of course, people were always like, you know, it'll change, you'll get married, you'll have this person. I got told I was going to hell because my job as a woman is to have kids. I I had my tubes tied at 30. I was like, this is this is the choice I am making for myself. And I think when we know our identity that well, we have these moments that push up against who we are as a core. What I learned as I started healing is that my ability to be a chameleon back then was in itself its own trauma response because I didn't know myself at a surface level. I knew myself at a deep level. So I was searching for communities to just accept me and love me and show me that I was valuable. So I would fit into every community until they pushed up against who I was. Now I know exactly the groups I want to be in, exactly the rooms I want to be in. I'm okay being alone. This is one of the hardest things for my new boyfriend to handle because he'll want to go do something. I'll be like, okay, go do that. He's like, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, not that. You go do what you want to do. I'll go do what I want to do. When what you want to do and what I want to do mesh again, then we'll be good. And he's like, How do you do that? And I said, I know who I am. I no longer need to be the chameleon. So rather than putting myself in a bunch of different groups and losing a little bit of myself in each one until it gets to my core identity, I put myself in groups that I know match the identity that I choose to be. And I think as parents, we get to, you get to, not we, I'm not a parent. You get to start to figure out who you are, who you want to be, before it pushes up against who you refuse to be.

SPEAKER_03: 46:47

The chameleon piece resonates so deeply with me because as an empty nest or not uh as a Coast Guard military brat, like I did the same thing, right? Where can I find a fit in? I'm gonna try this group, this group, this group, this group, until I got to the point where and it took me a really long time. It took me to about 50 or so to be like, no, this is who I am, this is what I believe, this is how I live my life. And the whole piece you were having, the conversation with your boyfriend, it's the exact advice I give to couples. It's like perfect, there's no such thing as perfect marriage, but a really good one is like when you get to do stuff as an individual and your partner gets to do stuff as an individual, and when it crosses, it's great, but all three have to happen in order for it to be fluid and good and wonderful.

SPEAKER_01: 47:27

Well, and I because I've lost myself so much, because I didn't know who I was, you know, I have I have a wide variety of interests. I'm a sporty chick. I I would rather hang out with guys than girls most of the time. Not because I dislike girls, but because I like to talk about football and hockey and drink beer. And that's not normally what girls are talking about. So when I find my people that are women and also love sports, I'll hang out with them too. But for so long, I would go dancing and then I found obstacle course racing, and then I would go travel and then I'd join a book club. And my mom would always ask me when I was going to slow down. And I don't feel like I need to. And then as I started healing, I started realizing that some of those choices were being made because if I stopped moving up, the only person I was left with was myself. And I didn't like myself very much. Now I found out that I'm not as much of an extrovert as I thought I was, because I really like me. And time alone with me is really freaking amazing. I don't need to fill all my time with all these other things. So I think the short answer for parents that are listening is like, I don't know if you've seen this or not, but I think about it every time somebody tells me they love personal development. Like, if you love personal development, you are not doing it because it sucks. Like, it's hard, right? Like I love to hate myself. Yeah.

unknown: 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:55

No, I I I read an I saw a meme a few years back or a post on Facebook that said personal development isn't the book or the podcast, it's the blood, the sweat, the tears, the inter, the, the reflection, the interconversations, the trauma healing. It's and it's painful and it's also beautiful. And so if we're going to break this empty nesting cycle and we're really going to find happy, amazing, fulfilling lives after parents or after children leave, we have to dig into the identities that we created while we were covering up our trauma for the purposes of raising kids. And that hurts. And I, it's all so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03: 49:40

Yeah. And I think that's a great way to close this episode. That was such a powerful point. So I appreciate you bringing it up. I'm curious, before I let you go, right? You've done a lot, you've shared a lot. I appreciate you being here. What's one thing you learned about yourself in writing your bullshit box?

SPEAKER_01: 49:57

Well, one thing I learned about myself is first of all, success is not a destination. If you, you know, my mom said something to me growing up that I never didn't listen to, because I don't listen to anything my mom said growing up. That it was about money. And I said, if you can't make it on$1,000 a month, you'll never make it on$100,000 a month. And I thought, how can somebody not make it on$100,000 a month? That's stupid. If you don't feel successful with nothing, you will never feel successful with everything. So there's this reality that success is within us and fulfillment is within us. And on the days that I feel like I need to chase it are the days that I actually need to sit in and and reflect on what I'm not giving myself so that I can give what I want to the world.

SPEAKER_03: 50:47

So good. So good. Amber, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time and your conversation. Folks, your bullshit box is available wherever you can buy books, is by Amber Furman. Amber, thanks again for being on This Emptiness Life.

SPEAKER_01: 51:01

Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00: 51:03

Thank you for listening to This Emptiness Life. Remember, this chapter isn't an ending. It's an invitation to redefine, rediscover, and reignite your life. If today's episode sparks something in you, don't forget to take that first step and visit thisemptinesslife.com and click work with me to get the conversation started. Until next time, keep your heart open, your mind curious, and your spirit shining. This Emptiness Life is a production of Impact One Media LLC, all rights reserved.