SPEAKER_02: 0:00

It feels like the rug's been pulled out from underneath of you. And a lot of people did tell me you will grieve for a lifetime. And you will just learn to live with this. It will get easier to carry. And for me, it just felt like that was still so heavy. And I really wanted to know if there could be joy again, if if I could live a fulfilling life again.

SPEAKER_00: 0:23

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life, the podcast dedicated to helping you embrace this transformative season with purpose, passion, and joy. In each episode, we explore stories, strategies, and insights to help turn your empty nest into an exciting new chapter. Whether you're redefining your identity, pursuing new passions, or finding peace in the pause, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the empty nest coach, Jay Ramsden.

SPEAKER_01: 0:45

Hey there, my emptiness friends. One of the least talked-about struggles we navigate during the shift to empty nessing and aging is when you're faced with the loss of your significant other and the impact it has on your life. In today's episode, I have Angela Clement, a compassionate grief coach, healer, and author who deeply understands the journey of loss and transformation. After losing her husband of 35 years to cancer, Angela experienced the profound reality of grief. She now helps others see grief not just as a dark, painful chapter, but as a powerful door to rediscovery and renewed purpose. Today she'll guide you towards embracing your pain, honoring your journey, and awakening to new possibilities. Angela, welcome to this emptiness life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32

Thank you so much for having me, Jay. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

Yeah, I'm I'm excited that you're here because of the story, because how it can help people. And so many people at our stage of life, you know, we raise the kids and we get faced with unexpected loss. And sometimes that's the death of a loved one in your case. Sometimes it's just empty nesting. Sometimes it's another major life transition. But how did you, through your own grief journey, help find meaning and even a renewed sense of purpose? Where did it come from and how did it begin?

SPEAKER_02: 2:07

Let's start it out just really me wondering if life could be fun again, you know, if it could be happy again, because it feels like it can't.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21

Oh, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22

Yeah, it feels like the rug's been pulled out from underneath of you. And a lot of people did tell me, you know, you will grieve for a lifetime and you will just learn to live with this. It will get easier to carry. And for me, it just felt like that was still so heavy. And I really wanted to know if there could be joy again, if if I could live a fulfilling life again. And so, yes, I found it through meaning. And it was, it took a lot of time. It felt like a lot of time. It took a lot of soul searching, gut-wrenching questions about why am I here, what's going on, what happened, why did it happen to me? All of those questions. And in the end, I really found meaning through helping others. And there's kind of a cool correlation between who Blaine was and what I'm doing now. So Blaine was really a social character, he loved to hear people's stories, he loved to talk to strangers and find out about them. And I was more of an introvert. And so, this what I'm doing now, stepping onto the podcast and interviewing people, it is way out of my comfort zone. And yet it feels almost like home because it is what he loved to do. And so now I'm I'm living it, I'm seeing why he loved it so much, and it brings everything full circle and it really feels good.

SPEAKER_01: 4:08

Yeah, it's almost like honoring him in a way.

SPEAKER_02: 4:11

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 4:13

Yeah, I I I love that that it the full circle component. I would imagine too that there was probably a lot of feelings of guilt in even asking the question, could I find joy again?

SPEAKER_02: 4:26

Yes, yes, because you think if I'm joyful, then am I truly missing my husband? Did I truly love him? If I'm, you know, you've got that wrestling going on in your mind. But I've learned that that's not really how okay.

SPEAKER_01: 4:48

How so?

SPEAKER_02: 4:50

Yeah, so really what happens is the memories that you have, those fun, happy memories are the ones that come to the forefront eventually. And I feel like that's the fuel that I take moving forward. I don't lean into, you know, he was sick for 10 months, he was in the hospital, the day of his death, you know, all of that stuff. It's there, but it doesn't have an emotional charge to it. What I take with me is all of the happiness and the joy and the fulfillment that I got from that life that I lived. And it's it's like I opened up a new door and now I'm starting over again and building new memories and a new life.

SPEAKER_01: 5:41

Okay. So I I would imagine at the time, and I'm sure this happens for most people who experience a loss, is like the feeling, the overwhelming feeling of sorrow is just so heavy. Yeah. But there has to be some small practical steps that they can take to even begin to move forward and and maybe even heal and rediscover what life could be like. What would those small steps be?

SPEAKER_02: 6:06

Yeah, they're different for everybody, but there are some really good techniques that I can share for people, and you can take what works for you. So a lot of people talk about being connected to nature, and this is a big one. Going outside for a walk, seeing the trees, the sky, the sun is really healing all in itself. And it does bring up emotions often when you're in that silence and connecting with nature, but that is part of the healing process, it's part of the natural process that we go through. And so it is one of the ways that we can do that, but also just being creative in any way cooking, writing, drawing, painting, knitting, any of those things where your mind is occupied in a way, but yet not in that space of you know despair. It's more of that creativity, uh, the joyful things that you like to do. Again, just dabbling into that a little bit, I think, really helps people.

SPEAKER_01: 7:27

Yeah, I I love that you bring that up because it's interesting. I've spoken to lots of different people who bring a lot of different viewpoints to the show, but for some reason, getting out in nature and creativity keep coming back again and again and again. And it's interesting to see how that kind of is connected no matter what we're going through at any point in our lives, but that the fact that it can really help in deep times of sorrow, whether it's a loss of a loved one or when the kids go and leave, leave home and go off and become an empty nester. Yeah. So I know as we age, you know, some of us feel like you know, joy and fulfillment are just way back in the in the rear view mirror, rear view mirror. Yes. Um, but I would imagine that even strikes a little bit heavier when you've lost your significant other. But what what message do you have for people who are listening who believe that it is too late to find happiness or purpose again after grief?

SPEAKER_02: 8:26

Yeah, it's a natural thing to think that you know life is winding down, or you know, because we're kind of told that too. In all answers. True, true. We're often told that. And we had dreams and plans, you know, we were going to travel. We were, I was so excited to be a grandmother and grandfather and have you know the grandkids. That was such an exciting thing. And and then when the first grandchild showed up and he wasn't there, it was devastating. Just, you know, gutted me. And I think now looking back, I realize that all of that needs to be felt, it needs to be caressed, it needs to be given grace, you know, all of that has to happen in order for you to move past it. It's not one of those things that you can just shove in a corner somewhere and not visit. It has to be visited. But through visiting that and through just being acknowledged in that, I remember my friend saying to me, you know, it must be so exciting to have a new grandchild, and yet it must be so hard. And just having someone else realize that for me and just acknowledge that that's normal to have those different feelings and to be able to just say, Yeah, it is, you know, it really is.

SPEAKER_01: 9:59

It's it's uh it's not a either-or. Either you are super excited to have a grandchild or you're super sad to have lost blank. It's a both and you can be both super excited for the birth of a grandchild and still grieve the excitement that would have been there for for him and you together.

SPEAKER_02: 10:20

Yeah, and there's no guilt in that. And I think that was me. You know, I felt really guilty about not being more excited about like why why am I not more? I should be more excited. Everybody else is excited, right? Why am I not excited? But you know, it's just that still moving through that new heaviness of the emotion that comes with loss. Yeah, yeah. Have you done any travel?

SPEAKER_01: 10:44

You mentioned you had this idea of travel. Have you done that?

SPEAKER_02: 10:48

Absolutely, yes. And it was difficult in the beginning. I remember the first airplane flight without him was just I I remember crying, just couldn't just like too much. But I'm so glad I took the step. You know, even though I knew it was going to be hard to do and I could feel it, I'm glad I did it because each time I revisit something that you know maybe we couldn't do together, and I do it on my own, it it actually frees me up to continue. It's yeah, it feels rough. It's like ripping the band-aid off quick, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 11:31

Yeah, that pain.

SPEAKER_02: 11:32

You gotta do it. And then as time goes on, and Mary Frances O'Connor talks about this, you're building new narrow pathways for that experience. And so you create a new experience of your own with travel. And so that's what I did. I did a lot of traveling.

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

Okay, tell me what a lot means.

SPEAKER_02: 11:55

I went, I started out, I went out to my mom and dad's. They live on Vancouver Island, so that was a good, you know, good short trip that could pick me up, and it wasn't too bad. And then I went to my aunt and uncle's down in Mesa, Phoenix, and then I went with a friend to Costa Rica. I went with my mom to Europe, I went with my mom and dad to Hawaii. So we've done a lot of different things, and uh and each time it just got easier and more fun. I also went on a trip to Bali with a friend as well who had lost her husband.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

So now lots of traveling, lots of travel. How have you done any travel solo?

SPEAKER_02: 12:33

Yes, the traveling solo, yes. When I went to down to Arizona, I spent a week by myself in Sedona and just did a retreat on my own.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

A great place for healing.

SPEAKER_02: 12:48

Yes, yeah, and it was great because it was a one-on-one, and it every day was, you know, two or three sessions with healers and you know, just different sound healing and all different kinds of stuff, breath work. And I came out of that a different person for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:08

I I asked the question because I think it's important for people who are listening to see that it is you were like, I the very first trip, I went to see my mom and dad, right? And then aunt and uncle, it's almost like you're moving further afield from like the connectedness of you know the family, just so you can start to experience these small baby steps up until yeah, I can travel by myself. Yes, what that looks like. Yeah, I know that community and support are vital, peace and processing grief. How how can we re how can we kind of create or find spaces that nurture that?

SPEAKER_02: 14:48

Yeah, it's interesting that you asked that. When I first started, I thought maybe I could just do this on my own. Because as I said, I was an introvert and I really didn't want to go talking to people about it. Felt like I was just gonna cry and what good is that kind of thing. Um, but then when I realized that I could help other people through what I'd been through, it just gave me a little bit of fuel to step out there a little bit. So I started with writing actually. I wrote blogs and I shared them, which was scary in the beginning. But then, you know, people are very receptive and they were very supportive. And so then I thought, okay, you know, I got my grief certification course, and I thought, I'm just gonna start a small group, see, see who wants to come. And so I did that. That's been going on for just about it's been three years now. That group has been together. And and so I find that that community, as much as I set it up to help other people, it's helped me because I'm listening to their stories, they're acknowledging my grief, I'm acknowledging their grief, and we're sharing resources that we can use to help each other through what we're going through. And we've become kind of a family, which is kind of cool. So we meet every 10 days on Zoom. Anyone's welcome. And it's free. It's not, I'm not charging for it. It's just one of those things that I feel really good about doing. And the people there have been through lots of them significant losses and have come out on the other side living those joyful lives, and they know how this all works. And so it's great to have, you know, a bunch of people who have gone through the same thing.

SPEAKER_01: 16:49

I would I would imagine, especially when I I like the frame grief as it's grief is when it happens, it's basically driving your car, and then eventually grief moves into the passenger seat, and then it moves into the back seat, then it moves into the trunk, then it moves into the car behind you. But every once in a while comes back and drives. Yes. And you know what a memory, a song, whatever. Yeah. And I would imagine the group is super helpful when those times come up for people.

SPEAKER_02: 17:16

Absolutely. Yeah, even just sharing your experience of that helps others because then they realize that it's normal for that to happen. And even me, you know, it's been four years now, the end of October here. And, you know, I was at uh an anniversary celebration and they played our wedding song, and it took my breath away. And we had to leave for a minute, and that hasn't happened for a very long time. So, you know, those those waves come further away, further in between, you know what I mean? And but when they do come, you just know what to do, right? You just I've learned the tools, I've learned the skills to handle that, and I'm just like, oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01: 18:09

All right, let's not let let's not leave people hanging. Like you learned the tools and the skills. People are probably asking, what are what are they? Tell me some more. Yeah, those things.

SPEAKER_02: 18:19

I like to, if I can in the moment, I like to feel into that. So if I can get away and actually have a moment to just feel it and allow it, then I like to do that. But sometimes you're not in that space where you can do that. And so what I like to do is envision putting those emotions into a waiting room and saying, you know what, I'm gonna get back to you on this. I can't do this right now. I've got other things going on, but I promise I'll get back to you. And then later that night, I often will just write in my journal what happened, and it'll bring everything back up again. I could probably listen to that song again, it would probably do the same thing. And then you you allow yourself to have that moment. You allow yourself to feel it and to give yourself, you know, it's almost like I envision myself putting my arm around me and saying, you know what, it's okay, because that was, you know, that was tough, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:20

Yeah. You almost like yourself now who's learned the skills, is going back to comforting the person who you become in the instant when you hear the song or whatever it may be for that that triggers you. It's almost, oh, I've learned these tools and I can still use them on myself. Yeah. In order to continue to move forward, you know, and honor the loss, but also remember I still have life to live.

SPEAKER_02: 19:44

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 19:46

I know your your work involves a lot of energy healing and spiritual practices. How have those helped you? How do they help other people? What does that look like through the grief process?

SPEAKER_02: 19:57

Yeah, I I did visit a lot of energy healers and I did a lot of energy healing on myself and my husband all during that time. And and I still do because I think that it's just a natural, our own natural way of healing. And when we're attuned to it, when we're in tune to energy and we can figure out how it flows through us, we can really use tools like meditation or breath work or sound to help us um move that energy. And it's just it it sounds complicated, but it really isn't. We make it complicated, right? And so it's just a real natural process that we all have that we can all do. Um, but what I did was I went to energy healers, and what they helped me with was just holding space so that I could move the energy that I needed to move. And it's not me that does the healing. It's the person who needs the healing that does the healing. So it's just holding space. That's basically what it is. And what happens is your body naturally gets into that state where it can move again, it can breathe again. It can it helps to lift those heavy emotions that sometimes you can't lift yourself. And so I found it really helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 21:30

Yeah. And you use the term holding space. And I think for people who don't understand necessarily what that means, like we're both coaches, so we use that term kind of readily, but it's it is being just curious about what's going on.

SPEAKER_02: 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:46

Yeah. More than anything else. What what have you been curious about now? You you've experienced grief. You've you lost Blaine four, you know, four years ago this month. And what are you curious about in your life now moving forward? I want to give people some some some inkling of hope.

SPEAKER_02: 22:04

Yeah. I mean, I continue to try to find new ways to help people in grief. I'm continuing with the podcast because I I learn so much by interviewing people, and I learn so much by being interviewed as well. And I love getting the message out there that there is hope and there is a way to move through grief. And I also have since met a new partner just recently. And so, you know, I'm looking forward to building a new life in that direction as well. And it's all just, you know, life is just always bringing us new challenges. And you can look at it as something negative that's hitting you, that's attacking you, or you can look at it as an opportunity to get curious about what kind of opportunities are lying ahead and what can I embrace and what can I move towards now. And I think we kind of got to leave that up to the universe sometimes. I mean, we we want to set goals, right? But sometimes I don't know what I want to do. And so just being joyful and happy in the moment and allowing opportunities to come to me seems like easier than trying to make something happen.

SPEAKER_01: 23:34

Make something happen. Yeah, I talk about that in my work is the challenge of change, where if you look at the word challenge, like the beginning part and the ending part form the word change. So you really can't, you really can't have a challenge in life without changing in some form or fashion. And every time you go to make a change in life, you're gonna face challenges. Absolutely. But the middle piece, the key to it all, which you just hit on, you didn't even know you hit on it, is the is the middle part, the L L E, which is let life evolve. And that's what you're saying is sometimes you have to just let life evolve and it'll show itself to you.

SPEAKER_02: 24:11

Yeah, and it can be more amazing than you can imagine, you know. Like I just would have never seen myself doing what I do, and I absolutely love it. So amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 24:24

I love that. You you talk about in your bio, you talk about being an author. Is that the blog, or do you have a book?

SPEAKER_02: 24:30

I do have a book. It's called Awakening Through Grief, and it's actually about my story. And because I was an educator in the past, I put in practical tips and exercises, prompts, and things to help people just process through their own story or their own grief as they read the book.

SPEAKER_01: 24:52

Awesome. And is that available? People can find that Amazon or other places on Amazon.

SPEAKER_02: 24:57

It's actually everywhere where books are sold, and also it's on Audible as well.

SPEAKER_01: 25:03

Oh, okay. Awesome. I love that. And I like the piece here, like, well, you know, have the educator background. I have the same background, my wife and daughter do as well. But I love the idea. Oh, yeah, there's going to be takeaways here. Not just in this episode, but if you get the book, there's there's actual exercise that can maybe help you process and understand better kind of how you move through grief. I take that back. I don't like that phrase. Yeah. Move through grief. You don't move through grief, grief moves with you. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 25:33

Yeah. And I really explain it in the book as a natural process, really a God-given process. Because, as you said, change is going to, it's inevitable. We're always changing, and with change always comes grief because you're always letting go of something because of change. And so you have to have this process to get through that. And we don't really have to look straight at it until it's a big one. And then now we've really got to look and see what we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_01: 26:05

Yeah, I think people see grief as the only happening when somebody passes, as opposed to no, you you grieve when you leave high school and go to college because that group of friends changes. Right? There's some grief there, or you grieve when your own kids leave the nest because it's a loss. Anytime we experience loss of any degree, their grief comes with it. Absolutely. What's one thing you've kind of learned about yourself through this process?

SPEAKER_02: 26:34

I think I've learned a lot more about who I really am. You know, I was always very shy and quiet, and I would say had a bit of a self-esteem issue.

SPEAKER_01: 26:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 26:50

Okay, and I'm still working through that, right? But I'm learning that, you know, really the sky's the limit for everyone and anyone. And to be truly happy, it doesn't take, you know, you don't have to have the best car, the fancy house, the wonderful job. It's really about little things in life. It's about the little things that make you happy. Those are the and the family and friends and people around you that really bring the happiness. It's it's so much more simple than we make it out to be.

SPEAKER_01: 27:30

That, yeah, that is true. What's one simple thing that makes you happy now?

SPEAKER_02: 27:36

Actually, I love my grandchildren. I would say that that is probably the number one. And of course, my kids and and my new partner is great. I still have my parents. I have, you know, lots of family and great friends. And I think those connections are more important to me than ever. Um, I think I took that for granted a bit before Blaine passed, and I don't anymore. Those connections are really important.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

They are. They are. What kind of what's the biggest motivator in your life right now? You've you've kind of gone through the grieving stage. You're, you've, you've you've learned a lot about yourself, but what motivates you in life right now?

SPEAKER_02: 28:21

I think my biggest motivation is really just reaching out and helping other people. I just feel like when I do that, it's so fulfilling for me. And I like to see the change in the world, right? Like it's just, and I know that it doesn't take a lot. A smile in the grocery store makes my so it doesn't take a lot to help other people. And if we can just look towards being kind to others, even in a small way, it makes a huge ripple effect. And I think that's a powerful thing.

SPEAKER_01: 28:59

It is, it is. What's one piece of advice beyond the kindness? Because I agree, kindness always wins, in my opinion. Is what's one piece of advice you would give people who may be facing grief and the loss of a loved one right now?

SPEAKER_02: 29:15

I would say don't give up. Don't give up looking, searching, trying to find that happiness again. And I will say gratitude is huge, even if you can be grateful for something very small to start out with.

SPEAKER_01: 29:43

Okay. For somebody who is, I can imagine they're saying, I don't, I don't even know how to even start being grateful. Yeah. Yeah. What what would what would that look like for them?

SPEAKER_02: 29:53

Yeah, the way I started was I had a journal and in it it had three lines, three things that you would be grateful for. So you kind of had a little space to write what happened during the day, and then a little yeah. And then it was three things you're grateful for, and one thing you do for kindness, one thing you did in the day for kindness. And I started in that journal, and at the beginning, it was really hard. It was like, I don't know what I'm grateful for. I mean, my I started it when my husband was sick, you know. So so I felt like there wasn't a lot to be grateful for. And as I went on, I think what the mind does, because you're thinking, okay, what is it that I'm grateful for? Like what it starts to do the work for you, and eventually it gets easier to figure out what you truly are grateful for. And I started to see a common thread through all of my gratitude was often my family, the time I was spending with my family, the things that people did for me. And so then the kindness thing was another thing. I started to look for ways to be kind because I knew at night I would have to write that. And then it got easier. You know, it just got commonplace after 10 months. I on the day of my husband's death, I wrote in that journal. I wrote three things that I was grateful for and something I did that was kind. Wow. And it felt good to me, it was grounding in some way.

SPEAKER_01: 31:34

Yeah. And I would imagine one of those things where maybe you were grateful that he wasn't in pain anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 31:39

Yeah. And the way my kids got I watched my my kids and I was just like so in awe of the way that they let go and and just you know, held their father in that space, and they were so more mature, maybe, than I realized, you know. I was thinking to myself, gosh, we did a good job. Raising those kids. Yeah, I'm so proud.

SPEAKER_01: 32:07

Of course, we should be grateful of that. Yeah. That's amazing. Angela, before I let you go, what's what's one wish for your future self?

SPEAKER_02: 32:16

I think just joy. Just joy. I just hope for more joy, more happiness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:23

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your story and your journey, how you help people. I I I hope, folks, as you're listening to this, if you're experiencing grief or you're going through something that is kind of feeling overwhelming, that you know and can see that there is actually maybe possibly some joy on the other side of it as you move through that. So thank you so much for being here, Angela. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 32:48

You thank you so much for what you do.

SPEAKER_00: 32:51

Thank you for listening to this Emptiness Life. Remember, this chapter isn't an ending, it's an invitation to redefine, rediscover, and reignite your life. If today's episode sparks something in you, don't forget to take that first step and visit this empty nestlife.com and click work with me to get the conversation started. Until next time, keep your heart open, your mind curious, and your spirit shining. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact One Media LLC. All rights reserved.