Speaker 1: 0:00

We need resilience like never before. Our kids need resilience more than ever before. I feel strongly. It should be taught in every school, in every workplace, in every family.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting. If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the Empty Nest Coach, Jay Ramston.

Speaker 3: 0:32

Hey there, my Empty Nest friends. One key to life is being resilient and, as a parent, it's something you've learned along the way in raising your kids, whether you realize it or not. All those late nights, the worries, the figuring it out it all helped you develop your resilience. In being a parent, you even taught those same lessons to your children, but then, when your kids had out the door, all those lessons seemed to leave your brain in an instant. Well, today we're in studio with Valerie Burton, the author of Rules of Resilience. You may recognize her from the Today Show or CNN, where she is frequently featured as their go-to life coach. Valerie is also the very first coach I hired, so I'm thrilled she's here with us today. Valerie, welcome to this Empty Nest Life.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Thank you, Jay. It's so good to be with you and especially to talk about this topic of empty nesting. We're like partially there, but not completely. You've got one more, You've got one more to go.

Speaker 3: 1:30

So you're an in-between nester, as they may say. Yes, yeah, and I think it's so timely of a conversation because so many people just went through college drop-off and move-in. They're all back home and your book is coming out here in the middle of September. What caught me about the book? Obviously, there's 10 rules that you have, which they're all phenomenal, but the one I think that's most important for us to dive into right now is rule number two, because you know, resilience is one of those things that, yes, we know it inherently, but when those old heartstrings get tugged during the emptiness transition, I think it just flies right off our brains. But the second one, that was, choose thoughts that strengthen you, was one that I thought well, let's start there and see where this conversation takes us.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Yeah, you know, a huge piece of resilience is about adaptive skills. I talk about this, this very simple framework for for building your own personal system of resilience, and probably the most powerful adaptive skill is how you think in the face of a challenge, of a change. What are you saying to yourself? And I can give you an example of this. We dropped off my youngest bonus daughters I have two bonus daughters and a son are my youngest bonus daughters. I have two bonus daughters and a son.

Speaker 1: 2:47

My youngest bonus daughter started college in August, but she's not far from home. She's in downtown Atlanta. But our oldest is a junior and my husband flew with her to the Netherlands because she is doing a study abroad. This is the kid who, in middle school, when I had a speaking engagement at UGA in Athens, georgia, which is two hours from where I live, said she didn't want to go to UGA because it was too far away. Now she goes to college in Rhode Island and she's studying abroad, on another continent. And the thoughts right Like it can be hard enough to drop your kid off at college, but to drop them off on another continent and go back home.

Speaker 3: 3:30

Ah, yes, yes, I have a couple of people who've reached out in my circles. They live, like in the UK and their kids are coming to the US and they're having the exact same thoughts like, oh my god, they are a continent away. And what does that mean for me as a parent?

Speaker 1: 3:46

Yeah, so one I think it's important, like for one of my, like literally putting this rule to use one of mine was noticing the thoughts. What am I saying? Cause I was catastrophizing.

Speaker 3: 3:58

Of course, yeah, welcome to being a parent, right.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Very, very short period of time, but sometimes what we need is when we need perspective, right. So perspective can be talking to others who've been through something similar, talking to those who are familiar, like the number of people who've been to Amsterdam recently, how safe Amsterdam is. But, more importantly, she's a cautious young woman. She handles herself well. This is, you know, study abroad is something I thought about in college. I never did and I'm excited for her. And you know, just even in our, in our, in our WhatsApp conversations, you know what she's learning, what she's noticing, even just after a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1: 4:41

So, choosing thoughts that strengthen us in our situation is noticing. Okay, what did we already teach? What are the good things about this? And hey, it's only natural to have fear when you stretch way out of your comfort zone. It doesn't mean run in the other direction, doesn't mean we made the wrong decision. It means I've got to manage those thoughts and I should expect them. Which, jay, is the first rule of resilience Expect. The unexpected. Part of it is expecting that things might be hard or feel difficult, and that's normal, which kind of lowers the temperature on whatever you're feeling in terms of stress, because you realize like what kind of parent would I be if I didn't have any concerns? Of course you have concerns. This is just part of the process. Now let's just keep moving forward.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Yeah, I think it's such an important one too. It's like I can imagine parents saying, oh hey, I wish I would have known this rule before and kind of would have been able to implement it. But how do I even pass it along to my kids? Because they're going through it, they're trying to be resilient, they're trying, they're in a new spot, learning everything, new, new daily routine, new people, new places to go, and I think it's like how do we help our kids with it as well? So have you done that with your child who's gone off to the Netherlands? Have you imparted some wisdom from rule two?

Speaker 1: 6:05

Well, the exciting thing to me is I was concerned that she would be anxious, right, and so it's been more of my questions how are you feeling about this? How are you? You're? You know, I know you're in a place with a lot of other students who are from overseas, but you're in your spot by yourself. Are you okay with that? There's not a roommate. She's like oh, actually, I like the time to myself and she's talking about who she's meeting, all the different countries that they're from in this Dutch university that she's going to. She's fine, and that actually, for me, was very helpful, I think in part because she made the decision. This is something she wanted to do and we wanted to support her in it.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Now there are sometimes challenges where you know maybe they are struggling. So, with my son, for example, he was starting some new stuff yesterday and we actually had a conversation about his thoughts. He had his first day of cross-country practice in middle school, and so you know we were talking about like, what were the thoughts that weren't working? How did you change them? And he said today, probably the hardest thought, mom was, I wanted to do cross country and I had to run three miles.

Speaker 3: 7:20

That's a tough, tough thought yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:23

And he said and so I was thinking I can't do this he said but I did notice it and I just told myself this is hard, but I can get through this. And I thought, wow, and that really was from conversations we've had over time, I also share where I struggle. So I think that's helpful because I think sometimes and you know, if you grew up in a household where your parents didn't share their thoughts, their negative emotions or talk it through, you could feel like the adults always have it together.

Speaker 3: 7:56

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Even as I was writing this book, I would tell Alex like mommy's been procrastinating, like it's all in my thinking it has to be written perfectly, which I know is not true. So I'm giving myself permission today, alex, to write badly. Editing's a separate, that's a separate gig. I get to just get it on the page. It doesn't have to look just right, because that's not the part we're going to publish, but I got to have somewhere to start. I think one of the things that can be helpful for us as parents is acknowledging how hard it is for us as I try to help my son in particular, navigate electronics like they're addictive. So I'll say, yeah, call me out, alex, if you see me on the phone too much. He does not hesitate to do so.

Speaker 3: 8:45

I love that.

Speaker 1: 8:46

But I'll just say it's hard. Like this is designed to keep you holding it, so it's not just you. I'm not fussing at you about electronics. This is hard for everybody. So we've got to notice it, We've got to give our brain breaks. I have found that that works very well for young kids, but also for the older ones, because you're having real talk about real struggles and you're not pretending that you have it all together and they need to just figure it out.

Speaker 3: 9:14

Yeah, I think what you were talking about parents and kind of showcasing how to be resilient or share about their feelings or their struggles and I know, like our generation of parents, our parents that was probably not the norm whatsoever. It was probably the minority of folks who actually demonstrated that for their kids. So for people who are listening, I imagine they're saying, well, my parents didn't do that. How do I even get started in being resilient for my kids or showcasing what that looks like? What would you say to them?

Speaker 1: 9:47

Well, authenticity is a hallmark of resilience. So I'd start with honesty. You know I'm realizing maybe I haven't always shared with you some of my struggles and things that are hard for me, and I'm really working on being more resilient, in part because I want to help you do that. Let's talk about what that means, right, and even acknowledging like your kids have been resilient, so helping them identify like what's the biggest challenge you've overcome. How'd you do that? How might you apply what you learned there to this current challenge? Like really affirming them for what they're doing well, to build up their confidence that they already are resilient All of us are, sometimes we forget how we've been resilient and to pull those lessons into the current challenge. So I think, being very authentic and saying I'm on this journey and it occurs to me that there's this part of parenting that maybe I haven't really done very much and I'd like to start. So they're in on that change and they're not going. What's going on with dad? He's journaling. Now he's coaching.

Speaker 3: 10:59

Exactly, Exactly, I think well, I love it for my kids because I talk about this in my world is like you have to be an example of what's possible for the kids, and I think learning how to this I think plays right into rule number four is showcasing like how you can actually can control the controllable and just accept the rest. I think that's a huge part of growth and in this emptiness life, I think parents lose sight of that. What's been your experience in writing the book and sharing that rule with folks?

Speaker 1: 11:33

So control the controllable and accept the rest is one of my favorite rules. It taps into the research around locus of control having an internal versus an external locus of control. The most successful resilient people have an internal locus of control. Having an internal versus an external locus of control. The most successful resilient people have an internal locus of control, which means they focus on what they have control over. Things like I have control over my attitude. I have control over what actions I choose to take.

Speaker 1: 11:58

Next, you may have control over apologizing or forgiving somebody, depending on what the situation is. You don't have control overizing or forgiving somebody, you know, depending on what the situation is. You don't have control over, for example, the decisions your company is going to make or you know what's going on in government, et cetera. Like you can influence as much as possible and you can make choices that help influence, but in terms of the things you actually control, you control what comes out of your mouth help influence, but in terms of the things you actually control, you control what comes out of your mouth. You control whether you decide to get a little more sleep or engage in some healthier habits or learn something new. So really, looking at what do I control? It lowers your stress level. It definitely makes you more resilient, because you're not wasting energy over focusing and worrying about things that you absolutely have no control over, like other people.

Speaker 3: 12:51

Oh, exactly Right, they have no control of what they say or what they think.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Yeah, if I could just get him to do X or to change that or to stop doing. And if there's somebody in your life that you are thinking of as I say that and you've been doing that for a year, two years, 10 years, it's like except the rest, that does not mean that you approve of it. It doesn't even mean that you're okay with it or you're embracing it. It means that you're looking at it and you go. I don't have control over that. It is what it is and you go. I don't have control over that. It is what it is. Now, in light of what it is, how do I want to show up? What choices do I want to make? What adjustments would help me adapt better or still get to my goal in spite of? That's what it means to control the controllable.

Speaker 3: 13:41

I love that, and I was just talking to a client about this just yesterday. We were going through access to me, right my brain, my time, my energy and they were struggling with that concept. So I think that's I think that's a really good way to kind of share that with folks today. That's how you can control. The controllable is like what do I have control of Yep I have, that I have control of how people have access to me is like what do I have control of? Yep I have? I have control of how people have access to me, have access to my time and my energy, and it's such a. It's a great example of that.

Speaker 3: 14:13

For for I've run into people who maybe you said your daughter. It was her choice to go to the Netherlands to go to school, but some parents push their kids towards a certain school and sometimes it doesn't always work out right. The kids are miserable and then the parents feel guilty that they pushed in that direction. And so when you talk about choosing thoughts that strengthen you, some of those thoughts are really detrimental, I think, to the relationship. What would you say to somebody who's in that spot? Because I have people who listen who are in that spot.

Speaker 1: 14:44

So give me an example of like one of the thoughts that might be coming to a parent.

Speaker 3: 14:48

Oh, absolutely I screwed up. My kid's life is probably the number one. Thought they're miserable and I did this to them.

Speaker 1: 14:55

So, um, first you got to define screwed up their life. Let's put it all into perspective. Sometimes we have to do that from a place of gratitude. I'm grateful that my kid went off to college. I'm grateful that they're healthy. I'm grateful that I'm having and I'm noticing that maybe this was not the right choice. Can I have an honest?

Speaker 1: 15:25

conversation about that, right, so I think when we make mistakes, like we're human, we do that and in fact, pushing a child in a particular direction often is coming from a place of trying to help, even if it's misguided. We want the best for our kids and as parents, I really believe the vast majority we do the best that we can and we can look back and go.

Speaker 3: 15:57

I wish I hadn't done that because, hindsight, of course, we see very clearly. Oh yeah, absolutely, monday morning quarterback right being able to see exactly what the path may have been.

Speaker 1: 16:02

The question becomes so what now? Right, I cannot control what I did in the past, where we are now, but I can control where we go from here. I can control next steps from my perspective, and this sometimes means big changes. It means open, honest conversations, right, and so I think that's really important. You know, I spent my first year of college as a cadet at the Air Force Academy. I had pretty much decided that that wasn't the direction I wanted to go. It was all I knew.

Speaker 1: 16:37

I was born in an Air Force base my dad's retired Air Force and it was an honor. And we moved to Colorado when I was in the fifth grade, wrote my term paper on the Academy as a ninth grader and said that's where I'm going. But you know, somewhere along the way after I'd applied, I thought maybe that wasn't it. But once I got in, you know, my parents thought otherwise. Plus, it was a complete full ride. It was such an honor, it was like, and my dad was enlisted. So this idea that, like my daughter's going to go, she's going to be an officer, and it didn't go well, and I was there for a year and decided to leave. I'm not even sure. I was probably well into adulthood, before you know, had the conversation with my mom. Like you, told me I was not going to these other schools. I got a scholarship, so she's like I did. There were a lot of dynamics to that. At some point, if we're, if we're super honest and open, forgiveness is needed on both sides, right.

Speaker 3: 17:37

So important yes.

Speaker 1: 17:39

And then like, is there a lesson in this for all of us? Is there a message? Like I can't say I regret it. I learned a lot about myself and then I chose a new path and even in that new path, you know, I was doing some things that were like overcompensating for not having good grades there and oh, I'll get through college fast and I'll finish early and I'll go to grad school and I'll finish at 21. And then, like, oh my gosh, I just started enjoying the journey. Like, even in all of that, there are many things that happened because of that first year, and yet life turned out fine.

Speaker 3: 18:13

Yeah, More than fine, I would say.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Yes, more than fine, and I don't think that was my path. I think that is an excellent path and I think you know we're very blessed to have people that serve, like my dad did for 24 years, but that wasn't my calling. We just have to accept that life doesn't always go as planned, that, of course, if we could go back and make different decisions, you might make a different decision about that ex that you you know that you were with for way too long. Or you know some career choice that you made because you felt pressured into it and through all of that. If you grow through it and you don't just go through it, you come out with wisdom, you come out stronger. If you look to like that's huge.

Speaker 1: 19:05

I mean there's this research around post-traumatic growth, which I think is fascinating. A lot of it comes out of the University of North Carolina. And when people understand going into difficulties, if they understand that PTSD isn't the only option because we all think of that, like that can be very real. But if you realize I'm about to go through something really hard and I could grow as a result of it, that people are actually more likely to grow, they actually lower their stress and anxiety because they go into it saying I know this will be hard, but I could actually glean something good out of it. That doesn't mean that you would choose to go through that awful health challenge or lose the job or whatever the case, but on the other side of it it's possible that you're expanded in some way and you're better in some way, and that in itself is a big part of what resilience really really is.

Speaker 3: 20:08

So, yeah, this happened for me instead of happened to me, I think is the way people often talk about that. It's interesting when you're talking about that scenario, when you think about kind of rule number five, I think this maybe plays into. It is like when people are going through it in the moment, it's like Ooh, how do I, how do I rally my resources when I'm in the thick of it? What might that look like for them?

Speaker 1: 20:33

Yeah. So that rule is rally your resources, which is relationships, it's past experience, it's training, it's access to resources, anything that helps you get through the challenge, money you saved. And so it's, I think, really important in the midst of your challenge to ask that question what past experience can I lean on? What resources do I have? Who do I know? Who's been there and done that? Who do I know of?

Speaker 1: 21:06

You might not even know the person, but there may be an example of someone who successfully moved through a challenge and you take lessons and you apply those. And the access to resources I think is really big too, because sometimes it's not that you have the resources, but there may be somebody that you know and they're like, oh, you need to go talk to this person. Or hey, I have this, you can use this to get through this particular challenge. And I think in the empty nest life, I think one of the most important things is having your peers that are going through the same thing and talk. You know who can you talk to, like there are going to be others who have similar feelings or they might have a different, better perspective.

Speaker 3: 21:53

Right, that you need that because oftentimes, if things aren't going well in the emptiness transition, people don't talk about it because they are afraid that everybody else seems like they're just having a ball and I'm not. I'm struggling with this and so it's like I'm not going to talk about it. Why would I put myself out there and talk about that instance? But I think your point is valid. It's like no, there's resources out there, including your friends and family.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Yeah, yeah, and so that means being willing to ask for help, being willing to have those conversations, is a big part of it, and so you got to work those resilience muscles, you know, and sometimes that's doing things that are uncomfortable, things that you wouldn't typically do Resilient people do not go it alone uncomfortable things that you wouldn't typically do Resilient people do not go it alone.

Speaker 1: 22:42

It's a great point. There are these extra bonus points for I didn't have to call anybody. I didn't have to. You know, don't do that. Rally your resources, find that community and sometimes it means you know, set those boundaries. There may be somebody that you're giving a lot of room to speak into your life. It's way too much negativity or pessimism and it's not helping you move in the right direction.

Speaker 3: 23:10

Yeah, that's a great point, and I think to. Another step in this is when we were talking about people not sharing what they're struggling with. Another that's what I love about your book it just so ties into everything is that don't pretend and don't defend. All right, If you are having a time, bad time, don't, don't pretend that you're not.

Speaker 1: 23:29

Yes, yes, yes. So that was one of the first rules that I that I developed Don't pretend, don't defend. Don't pretend things are okay when they're not, and don't defend things that you don't need to defend because it was a mistake, it was something you did wrong. It's kind of like you saying, if you pushed your kid in one direction and you realize now it's not good, don't keep defending that. You can say I was doing what I thought was going to be the best option. I was trying to help and I'm realizing now that perhaps it wasn't. It wasn't the most helpful option and I'm sorry. So let's talk about where we are right. Let's talk about the overall vision. I mean, ultimately, as parents, what are we trying to do? We're trying to help the kids launch. We're trying to help prepare them so that they can succeed in the world. Right, be resilient. So when you defend things that you're wrong, so just say you're wrong.

Speaker 1: 24:43

Of resilience, this particular rule don't pretend and don't defend is essential. And so where in your life are you pretending things are okay that aren't, and where might you be defensive? And you know when you're defensive, because it's like somebody pushes a button and you know you talk a lot. You talk about why it's really okay and you're. You know you get upset very easily and take a breath. Be honest, find the grain of truth. Sometimes people can criticize us harshly and all of what they're saying might not be true, but there might be a small piece that you could acknowledge and there's an opportunity there for growth, for reconciliation, for being more resilient.

Speaker 3: 25:22

What a powerful two sentences too, I thought, and I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 25:28

I thought and I was wrong.

Speaker 3: 25:32

And it's okay, and to be able to exemplify that for our kids, to be able to show them it's okay to say I thought this and you know. You know what I was wrong, this wasn't the right approach.

Speaker 1: 25:44

It's very healing in our relationships.

Speaker 3: 25:48

So good.

Speaker 3: 25:49

You know it's very healing when you tell somebody you hurt me or this was not right, and the person takes a breath and says, yeah, I see why you feel that way yeah, yeah, I see why you feel that way and one of the things, uh, in my leadership training when I was working in school is we worked with the center for creative leadership in greensboro, north carolina, and they taught us sbi, which is situation, behavior and impact. Just to approach somebody, say, remember this, here's the behavior that took place and here's the impact it had on me. You can also work that in reverse to say here's the situation, here's my behavior and the impact I feel impact it had on me. You can also work that in reverse and say here's the situation.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Here's my behavior and the impact I feel like it had on you. Yeah, so good, it's powerful.

Speaker 3: 26:28

Two things you talk about which I think people, if they pick up the book and look at the chapters, would be like what the heck are those things? Which is the growth gap and the energy gap. What are those.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Oh, my goodness. So this is. This is like two of these things that I kind of stumbled upon and really developed, uh, over time and realized how much they resonate. So growth gaps we all have them. We tend to set goals as um, performance goals as very measurable, like I can see whether you got it or not. You wanted to save a certain amount of money, you wanted to have this certain relationship, you wanted to get this certain job, you wanted to launch this business. Um, that, they're very easy. You want to lose this amount of weight, right, but growth goals are. Answer the question how will you need to grow in order to get to that?

Speaker 3: 27:15

goal.

Speaker 1: 27:16

And we have to have a growth goal that goes along with the performance goal. And we have to have a growth goal that goes along with the performance goal. Otherwise, like we'd already be there, if we use weight as an example, if I ask you, how do you lose 15 pounds? Pretty much the answer is going to be some combination of move more, eat better.

Speaker 3: 27:35

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:36

We all know that. That doesn't mean that we do it right. So how will you need to grow? Maybe it's in consistency, maybe it's knowledge, maybe you don't know what you're doing. That's kind of messing some things up or making it harder to get more fit. So if you understand how you'll need to grow, that becomes the engine for you to get to the vision. So a growth gap is the gap between where you are and where you will need to be in order to actually get to the goal. It's very enlightening because we can get very frustrated, focused on the steps.

Speaker 3: 28:17

Exactly, and that's where getting uncomfortable, being comfortable with uncomfortable thing comes into play. Right? That's the difference between where you want to be and where you are now. Yeah, that's so good.

Speaker 1: 28:25

just even one growth gap can move the needle can really help you get unstuck Energy gaps, which that's the 10th of the 10 rules is, I think, like for me, this was super eye-opening. We tend to not notice how big our challenges are and how much energy it actually takes to get there, and so when we get burned out or we just can't seem to find the motivation, it's often an energy gap. When your goal or the vision you have for your life is a 10, or maybe the challenge you're currently dealing with is a 10. And then I say, well, with right, Is it 10? And then I say, well, on a scale of one to 10, how much energy do you have right now? And you're like it's a five. So you got a 10 challenge and five energy.

Speaker 1: 29:32

At some point you're going to run out. You are not going to get there and you're wondering why things that perhaps used to get you excited you dread them, why you can't seem to force yourself to do what's needed. You may need to literally replenish your energy. You are not only operating on reserves. You've drained the reserves. You may need more sleep, you may need a better diet, you may need to get more exercise. You may simply need more positive energy in your life.

Speaker 1: 30:03

We know positive emotion makes you more resilient and when you're dealing with negative after negative after negative, like it drains you. Positive emotion helps you make better decisions, set better goals, you persevere longer, you even live longer when you have more positive emotions. So we've got to manage the energy and be really sensitive. Know your kid has left or your kids are now all out of the house and that may have energized you and you haven't noticed how that's shifting, how you feel every single day. So maybe some self compassion, maybe just kind of getting in touch more with what energizes you, finding those old goals and dreams Right. So being sensitive that changes in life change your energy, require different amounts of energy and you want to be able to manage, manage those energy gaps.

Speaker 3: 31:12

I love that. Yeah, it's just like your what do we call it? Like your social energy tank, right when, when you're dealing with other people. And what does that look like, Whether you're an intern or extrovert in?

Speaker 1: 31:26

Yeah, you're like, oh my gosh, all these people, all these questions, all this small talk. You know that you have to replenish. You may need some time, some more time alone. I used to say during the pandemic that collectively, as a society, we often were not noticing one how the kind of what was going on globally was impacting our energy Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 31:53

How the change and how we were showing up or the lack of social contact we were having compared to the past. All of those things you may need just to schedule in a nap once a week you may need to pay closer attention to. Hey, maybe I need to go to bed 30 minutes earlier, or maybe there's some commitments that I need to let go of for a season so that I have the energy to direct in a new way.

Speaker 3: 32:19

So good Now in your book, like my favorite rule of all of them.

Speaker 1: 32:25

You have not said the favorite one yet.

Speaker 3: 32:28

My favorite one is find the opportunity in the challenge, because it's something I talk about all the time. The one true constant in life is change, and you know, if you look at the word challenge, change skirts the outside of it. You know the letters, yeah. So I always say you know what, in every challenge we have in life, we have to change in some way, and with every change there's always challenges embedded in it. So that's why I love that rule, but tell me more about it, because I think that's the one people will have the hardest time grasping.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Yeah. So I think this rule gives a lot of hope Find the opportunity and the challenge. If you think about your biggest challenge right now, if you think about the challenge of empty nesting, the change of it, just ask yourself coach yourself with this question what's the opportunity in this challenge? This doesn't have to mean you like everything about the challenge. You might not like anything about it, but I guarantee you there's an opportunity in it. Maybe there are some things the last 18, 20, 22 years that you've put aside and in this new season you could pick that back up. Maybe there's the opportunity for more rest. Maybe there's opportunity to connect with your partner more deeply.

Speaker 1: 33:44

Or maybe you're the single parent who you know you haven't had a partner in a long time and you didn't want to introduce that, you know, into the, into the mix while you're still raising your kids, like I don't know. Maybe it's opportunity to pursue a different career or just whatever. I love asking this question because it takes your focus off of the obstacle that's in front of you to say, huh, what is the opportunity that I get? Because this thing exists and I think that's a gift. It's you looking for the gift in it and unwrapping that gift and savoring it.

Speaker 3: 34:29

Yeah, what's the opportunity I get to have from this experience? I love that. I love it. It's so good. Yeah, the other one too. And then my final favorite, which I think is the bonus one.

Speaker 1: 34:40

I'm liking that. It sounds like you got a whole bunch of favorites.

Speaker 3: 34:43

Oh, I do yeah, as an author.

Speaker 1: 34:45

I'm like yes.

Speaker 3: 34:45

So good.

Speaker 1: 34:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:01

That?

Speaker 1: 35:01

Yeah, that was my ultimate favorite was number eight. Yeah, find the opportunity challenge, but the bonus one, the pay it forward. I'm a big pay it forward guy and that one I love as well. So how can people like they read the book and they're like, oh yeah, this all works for me how can they pay it forward? Think this is the highest level of resilience?

Speaker 1: 35:10

Where we are resilient, we learn our lessons, we glean the opportunity and the challenge and then we're able to share that with whether it's with your kids, with coworkers, with friends who may be in the midst of challenges to actually create a more resilient world around you and for all of us. And we think about the world we're in right now, like there's more distraction, there's more uncertainty than ever for most of us in a generation, I mean, I'm going to say you know, generations before had a whole lot of other things I'm glad we don't have to deal with. But right now, like the sheer volume of change in the last 20, 30 years, even the last five years I mean we've been it feels like one thing after another of unexpected challenges and change. We need resilience like never before. Our kids need resilience more than ever before. I feel strongly it should be taught in every school, in every workplace, in every family.

Speaker 1: 36:20

It's why, for me, paying it forward was how do we take the research of resilience, the common sense of resilience, create a framework and these easy to remember rules so that, even if all you're paying forward is it's the opportunity and the challenge, or you should expect the unexpected, like you shouldn't expect that. You're going to A to Z and it's a straight line. So if you expect the unexpected, you're not so shocked. When things don't go as planned, you change gears and you go okay. What rule do I need to apply? And I think the other thing that happens is for me and I talk about this in the book is I look back to who paid it forward for me, because I guarantee you there is somebody. If you're resilient, there is somebody from your past that either inspired you, gave you some access to resources that helped you move ahead or get unstuck, and in that is gratitude and perspective.

Speaker 3: 37:22

So good.

Speaker 1: 37:24

It's powerful. I look a lot back to my own grandparents and like what their life was like compared to me. Even as a kid, it gave me this sense of strength, Like look what you're coming from, Look how far your grandparents came and doors they opened so that you had opportunities that they could only have dreamed of. Like you got to run with that, you got to take that baton and keep going. So, even when things haven't gone as planned, it puts it in perspective. It does. It does Problems I'm dealing with. Like they didn't even have the opportunity to have these problems.

Speaker 3: 38:03

That's a great way to frame it. I love that so much. I'm curious, before I let you go, what's one thing you've learned about yourself in writing this book?

Speaker 1: 38:24

I think I had a struggle in the process that I had to use my own rules that I was writing about to overcome, and I was resilient in doing so. My struggle was and it was a shock, because I've been teaching on resilience since I finished grad school in positive psychology in 08. And the struggle was well, if you think you're going to write like the go-to book on resilience, then that has to mean that you're the most resilient and you've been through the worst things and you've been through some stuff. But like there's other people that blah, blah, blah, and so I realized I'm just human, like everybody else. I'm not professing to be perfect at it, professing to be perfect at it.

Speaker 1: 39:15

What I am professing is that my passion is understanding how successful people think differently, do things differently, researching all of that and then packaging it in a way that's like, hey, this is real practical and I really believe it will help you, because success requires resilience. It's not just for the negative things we go through in life. If you want happy relationships, if you want financial independence, if you want better health, if you want to change careers, any of those success things require resilience. So I think what I had to learn is the stuff I'm writing about. I deal with it every single day and I've put all these rules to the test and I believe in them, not just because they're rooted in research, but because I use them. And yeah, I don't use them perfectly, but when I get back on track with them, they work.

Speaker 3: 40:09

Yeah, that's it. I love that point and folks like the success piece in your emptiness life is learning how to be more resilient, not just for you, but for your family and your kids and everyone else. So, valerie, thank you so much for being here today and allowing me to pay it forward for all you've taught me in both my personal and my coaching life. It's been a true honor and privilege to have this conversation with you.

Speaker 1: 40:32

Jay, I've so enjoyed the conversation. I feel very blessed to have been a part of your journey, your coaching journey and to get to have this conversation with you today has just been awesome, so thank you.

Speaker 3: 40:44

My pleasure, folks. Rules of Resilience. Out September 16th it's going to be available in all places you can buy your book, so run out and grab it. It is a must-have in your library. Thanks again, valerie, appreciate you being here.

Speaker 1: 40:58

Thanks, Jay.

Speaker 2: 40:59

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years? If so, head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact. One Media LLC. All rights reserved.