Speaker 1: 0:00

Our generation. The parents were like okay, go get married now and have children. And just the gap between us, you know, graduating college, for example, and then getting married and having children that gap was so small that they were on to their next role.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Right.

Speaker 1: 0:16

Quickly.

Speaker 2: 0:16

Quicker.

Speaker 1: 0:17

And the gap now is so much greater, like, my oldest daughter is past the age where I was already married and had her, and so the gap is widening, and so I think that makes it a little more like loosey-goosey for parents, like wait, what am I supposed to be doing? Because we have no role model for this.

Speaker 3: 0:37

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting. If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future, you're in the right place. Here's your host the Empty Nest Coach, Jay Ramsden, Julie. Voris welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Yeah, I'm so glad that you're here.

Speaker 1: 1:04

We were going to talk about empty nesting. Who would have thought I know?

Speaker 2: 1:07

Right, right, like nobody talks about it, and you know I'm trying to think Like. I found you online and you know I started following you on Instagram. I think it was no-transcript. Get rolling.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Of course, thank you for this opportunity. It's such a pleasure to be able to talk about empty nesting and be able to talk about this season of life. First and foremost, thank you for doing this, because not enough people are talking about it and it becomes this strange wilderness that nobody knows the map to, and there are lots of people who've been through it. There is an app.

Speaker 1: 1:53

So you know we can help other people kind of figure it out. I think that that's a really cool opportunity for us. So I am a former high school English teacher and I kind of fell into fitness. I discovered a passion for fitness, teaching fitness, training others to teach fitness became an online health and wellness business owner and it just kind of got to this place where, all of a sudden, now all these things I did with my girls being home and for my girls now they're actually not home anymore. And so here we are what do we do, what are we doing and how we figure these out?

Speaker 1: 2:29

My husband was a college football coach, so we lived the football life for 30 plus years and just two years ago we made our big dream come true. We were in Indiana, we moved to Florida. We are Midwestern people kind of lived in the Midwest. Even with coaching and moving a lot, we tended to stay in the Midwest. We had a little bit of a stint in Texas, but we were Indiana, illinois, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and the majority of our time was spent in Indiana. And two years ago we made the big move down to Orlando, florida, so we can both have nicer weather than Indiana and live a little closer to Disney because we love it here, and thank goodness that I did that at the time, that I really went off the deep end into empty nesting because I tell you what there's something really powerful about seeing the sunrise every morning.

Speaker 1: 3:28

It's really good for your mental health and the gray in Indiana was not so much, and I don't know what my mental health would have done if I was going through this this season, which the transition has been tough for me, as it is for many, um, and not living in a place where I can at least go get a little magic every once in a while.

Speaker 1: 3:47

So I'm really thankful for how it all worked out and, honestly, the girls are as well because it's a lot more fun to come home to Orlando, florida, or is to India. There's a lot more to do here, so everything happens for a reason, but it's been a little bit of a tough transition for me.

Speaker 2: 4:10

Yeah, and that's not uncommon, right when? When I talk to people, it's like throughout life you see these seasons of transitions from elementary school to middle school, middle school to high school, high school to college, college to job, job to marriage, Like it's all laid out. You see that that's kind of like the quote unquote normal path that you take and even so, you like see retirement life, but nobody talks about between the time the kids leave and that retirement life. There's no modeling of what that looks like for anybody. And so that's what I got so impassioned and empowered about trying to spread this word and having conversations with people is because I want to model like. I want to be an example of what's possible, and you certainly are an example of what's possible based upon your story. I'm curious when you left Indiana, said go to Orlando like were the kids out of college in college? Like what was the timing?

Speaker 1: 4:58

So when we left, uh, jenna, our oldest had once. She graduated college she lived for a year in New York City and working and then she decided to go to grad school in DC. So she was in grad school in DC finishing up working. She was in DC. Our middle one was in Indiana finishing her last year of school and our youngest one was in New York City in school.

Speaker 1: 5:27

So it was kind of a moment where it was a pretty good time to go, because people have sort of cut their ties a little bit to you know where it is the place they grew up, but they kind of cut their ties a little bit to that, that childhood home and such. And you know, my husband, as I said, had been a college football coach and going through the pandemic as a college football coach was extraordinarily difficult and I watched his mental health decline and we just got to the point where I couldn't find a really good reason to stay. Yes, he was still working, but he was unhappy and I was looking around going, okay, the girls are all gone now, everyone's in school now, but I'm living in the same town and which was amazing when they were in school.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Growing up it was a fabulous place. We lived in Carmel, indiana. It was a fabulous. School system was amazing. That was a fabulous place with amazing opportunities to raise a family. And then, once the family was gone, I just would look around and going I'm not sure what's keeping us here and watching him. You know kind of struggle with his mental health. I'm like it's, it's time and I really I had to do some, some pushing a little bit, but you know that's, that's what happens Sometimes. I do a little pushing. I'm like we're going to need to move this timeline up a little bit more. And then once we moved, it was like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing that we ever did. So the girls were at was not hard for them, it wasn't like it wasn't this. Oh my goodness, you're selling our childhood home.

Speaker 3: 7:07

What are we going to do? You know?

Speaker 1: 7:09

And one of the most fun experiences we had actually was the holiday break prior to us moving in March of 2022. And everyone was home that week before Christmas, between Christmas and New Year's, and we hauled everything up 16 years of stuff out of the basement, all their school stuff that I kept, just everything and we, every night that week, went through everything. And it was such a cool family experience to go through all of that stuff and relive all these memories and for them to choose what we wanted to keep and what they were like no, we're done with this. And really they were so fully invested in the move and the process of moving. The timing was perfect.

Speaker 2: 7:57

It was perfect. Yeah, like and I get that question a lot from people like just, you know, openly on social is like, well, I'm thinking about moving but I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3: 8:08

It's like the childhood home and all the memories right, but I loved how you approached it. Right.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Let's bring all the memories up and see what sticks, and you know what stays and what goes, and oftentimes you know, the memories of things get so wrapped in a thing. Yes, you know somebody gave me this pen. You know sort of that was. That was part of him, but is it really the pen? Is the memory, is it the person You're afraid? If you let go of the memory, you let go of the person or the thing. Yeah, and I love that how you approach that. It was just probably very cathartic.

Speaker 1: 8:38

It was, and it was so much fun and I would, I would really encourage anyone who is thinking about moving like to really bring everyone into that process and because your children leave home, right. So this idea of, oh my goodness, my kids don't want me to move, they don't, they don't want me to leave their child at home, yeah, but they're leaving home.

Speaker 1: 9:01

Right so at one point do you get to do your own thing too, right, you know so. So there's. We were kind of at that point to like, would you rather come home to Orlando, florida, would you rather come home to Indiana? They're like, yeah, florida is way better. So it did. The whole timing of it worked well, but also because I think we involved them so much in all of it, it felt really good.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Yeah, yeah, and for those listening like, you don't have to sell your home and move to Orlando Florida. There are other options. Yeah, this was just your journey. So, given all that you have going on right now right, obviously an empty nester you run a business, a pretty big business Like. What's your greatest motivator right now?

Speaker 1: 9:44

My biggest motivator for the entirety of my life, since I had children since the moment you know the oldest one was born has always been I've got children who are watching me and I need to model for them to being the best human I can possibly be Not the most perfect human, not the human that gets it right Cause, goodness knows, nobody is that and goodness knows I did not get and I did not go through this empty nesting journey. Well, many, many mistakes along the way, and I'm okay with them seeing that, because what they're also seeing me do is try to get better, and I think that's really important for our kids to see. So, my motivator, whether it's been showing up for stuff I didn't want not, we don't want to show up for everything that we have to show up to in our lives, but showing up to the to my life, show up to in our lives, but showing up to, to the to my life, trying to get better, being a constant student, building a business, sort of smashing some of those stereotypes of of women Well, you can either be a mom or you can build a business. No, you can actually do whatever you want and modeling that for them.

Speaker 1: 11:01

And then, even now, whether they know it or not, or absorb it now, modeling what it looks like to be in this season of life all the imperfections, all the mistakes, all of it and showing them you know what a life well-lived looks like. That is what motivates me. You know, I'm pretty clear that I'm not going to get it right every day. I'm pretty clear I'm going to make a lot of mistakes, but I have conversations with my daughters that I never had with my parents. We just never would have had these kinds of conversations, and that's motivating to me. How can I continue to grow into, for as long as I'm on this planet, the kind of person that my girls want to be around and that they kind of look at and go that? She lived a great life, and I hope to be able to do that too.

Speaker 1: 11:51

So, good, that's what motivates me.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Yeah, yeah, it's like being the example of what's possible, yes, right, because so often people think, ok, well, we get to the empty nesting years and if I'm working, I just keep working and I just wait for grandkids to come or a wedding to come and then I retire, like it's like this feeling stuck but not feeling stuck, it's like the routine of it all which I get right.

Speaker 2: 12:14

Our brains crave routine. But how incredible it is that that you're an example of what's possible for your girls. Like a hundred percent in this. You can do anything at any stage in life. Yes, right, and you're, and you're a walking example of that for them.

Speaker 1: 12:30

Well, I also don't want to be waiting yes, me me waiting for their next accomplishment. It was a statement on the. I don't have enough going on in my life right now Like I'm waiting, you know, if I don't have enough going on in my life right now Like I'm waiting, you know, if I'm just waiting around for them to get married, what if they choose never to do that which, by the way, is fine? Or waiting around for them to have children, which they may never have children, which also, by the way, is fine I'm just waiting around for their next thing. But that means I've forgotten that I'm also a human being, person with goals and dreams of my own, and I don't do them any service just by waiting around.

Speaker 1: 13:12

They need to see me flourishing so that they know, when they get to this season of life, they can do this too. The reason why they know they can do anything in life they want is in part not a hundred percent, but it is in part to what they've seen me do up to this point in their life, and even though I did always navigate empty nesting, you know, amazingly, that's okay. They saw that too. They saw a human who was trying to figure stuff out and is willing to work to figure stuff out, and when they get to this season, they'll do it a little better. That's the point. They should do it a little better than I did. And if they do choose to have kids, awesome. And when their kids get to this season of life, hopefully they do it a little bit better. That's kind of the point of all this is continuing to model for them what these different seasons in life can look like and then give them the baton so they can do it a little bit better.

Speaker 2: 14:02

Yeah, yeah, it's like we want better for every generation wants it a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, it's like the we want better for every generation wants better for the next generation. Right, but the old philosophy of what that looked like, I think, needs to change.

Speaker 1: 14:14

Right.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Like the old philosophy was like working a job till forever and then retire. And then you just do retirement, you know, and play the role of grandparent. But I want people, this is what I want. People and see if this resonates with you is like I want. I want my grandkids or my kids to be able to say to their kids, my grandkids, like, oh, my God, look what grandpa whatever name they give me did at this age in life. Like, look at all the things that he, he did that were like just cool. This is how we, how we live life. Yes, Right, we don't live life going through the motions.

Speaker 1: 14:46

I don't know if that resonates or yes, very much, very much, because I you know, I think what makes empty nesting a challenging transition is like as we talked about nobody talks about it. So if you research what's it like to parent grownup children, you will find very little out there. You'll find lots of stuff about toddlerhood, which is about two years. You'll find lots of stuff about elementary and middle school, which is three, four, whatever, how many years. You'll find lots of stuff about teenage years and then there's a huge drop-off and there's nothing except the majority of our lives we will spend knowing our children as actual adult children.

Speaker 1: 15:29

And the fact that there's nothing out there about this season of life and how it can be challenging, particularly for women, I think makes people very unprepared for this season of life.

Speaker 1: 15:42

And I know, you know my parents didn't talk to me about it and also I think my generation was a little bit, our generation was a little bit different and you know I did get married pretty quickly out of college, I did have children pretty quickly and my girls just are not doing which I have any say in. I was very unprepared for that and I think it's because no one talks about it. No one talks about it. And if they do talk about it, you only hear them talk about them being sad and how they can't wait for grandchildren, or they push down the negative emotions and just talk about it. But I'm just so proud. I'm just so proud. Here's the God's honest truth. You're going to feel sad and proud and excited and lost and confused and happy all at the same exact time. You're not going to know what's going on and all that's okay, but most of us aren't prepared for that influx and tornado of emotions because nobody talks about this season.

Speaker 2: 17:01

Exactly. I think they call that that one instance college drop off day. No, I'm kidding, Like that's the one where it is All. Think they call that that one instance college drop-off day. No, I'm kidding, Like like that's the one where it is. All of those emotions happen in that day. You're proud, you're sad, you're angry, you're frustrated.

Speaker 2: 17:16

You're happy, you're lonely, Like you're confused that day is like the Kickstarter, for all the balls of emotions that we feel, yeah, and it's the fact that, like people, that well, what it's like, oh, it'd be fine, just you know, just do this and enjoy it, and then go home Like no, like there are so many things you can do to get ready for that day. There's so many things you can do when you, once you get home, I think what happens is people experience that and then they're just left with a whole bunch of questions.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Correct, correct. And then they go home and the energy in their house has shifted and they don't know how to navigate it.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Yeah, that's so smart and they don't know how to talk about it. Because and I'll speak about women specifically because if you're a woman and you talk about feeling sad to a point that that makes you selfish, to a point that that makes you selfish, you can talk about as a female this is what I've discovered and as a female, you can talk about being worried about your kids, because that's about them. But if you talk about being sad or confused or lost, well that's about you. And suddenly now you're a selfish mom and you can't talk about that. You can be worried because that's about them. Selfish mom, and you can't talk about that. You can be worried because that's about them. Or you can be proud, but heaven forbid you be all those things which newsflash you are, and over and over and over again over the past two years, especially women would have said to me.

Speaker 1: 18:41

Well, I thought I was the only one feeling all this and I thought to myself and sometimes I would say to them it's a planet of 8 billion people. What part of you thinks that you're the special unicorn who feels this? But we think that because no one talks about it. It's sort of this shameful thing to say wait, I did this thing that I was kind of supposed to do with my kids, but now I'm not really sure how I feel about it. In fact, I feel kind of crappy about it, that's. That's kind of we've made that kind of shameful in society and, frankly, it's time that we stop that and just normalize.

Speaker 1: 19:19

You're going to feel all the feelings. You're going to feel all the feelings on any given day. There are going to be some days that are more sad than others. There are going to be some days that are happy and you're fine. You're going to feel all of it, and the piece that will help you navigate it the most is time. That's it. You have to live through it, go through it, make mistakes, learn from them, work on you and put some time into actively doing the work to feel better, or you will stay stuck in the sad and your children are seeing that and that's a disservice to them.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree, and I think nobody talks about it because of the shame. Agree, right. It's like oh, if I, if I, if I tell my family, or I tell my friends that I'm struggling, especially if I have friends who still have kids at home, that's where the shame really comes from.

Speaker 3: 20:13

They're like wait.

Speaker 2: 20:14

you're out of be the best day of your life. The house is empty, you get to do whatever you want to do. Right. But if you spend so much time of your self-identity you know mom or dad right, because we have dads who do that Like they're the one who's the logistics person or the coach of the kid's team or whatever all the way through, whatever it may be, when you wrap your self-identity up into being Billy or Susie's mom or dad, you're not your. Your self identity isn't who you are as a person.

Speaker 1: 20:43

And it's so. It's so interesting that you say that you use those words, cause I was thinking about last week. We have this great family that lives next to us and they have four young kids and they have. You know, in Florida, of course, everybody has a pool in their backyard. The kids are out in the pool in their backyard and I don't know which kid was like well, I think it was all of them Mom, mom, mom, watch me, mom, watch me, mom, mom. And I was standing out in our pool and I was just. I was laughing to myself because it was constant Mom, mom, mom, watch me, mom, mom, mom, mom.

Speaker 1: 21:13

And my husband came through. He goes. I just, I love hearing the sound of the kids next door. I go, I do too, but I'm thinking about this on a whole nother level, because I'm thinking about that is such a perfect example of why it is so challenging for women to navigate this transition, because the dad that lives next door is an amazing dad. My husband is, was an amazing dad, is an amazing dad. My husband is was an amazing dad. It's an amazing dad, but they're not going. Dad, dad, dad, watch me. They're saying mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, watch me.

Speaker 1: 21:48

And then we get to this place where it's time to to launch them. And again, mine are old enough Now they're making their own money, they're making their own decisions and you're like, wait what? No one's saying mom, mom, mom, watch me. No one's saying mom, mom, mom, what should I do? No one's saying mom, mom, mom. And it is such a hard, it's such a hard act to extricate yourself from that identity of mom because for however long your kids were like, that's what you heard, that's, that was part of it. And I was just standing out there listening to all of it and thinking this is what makes empty nesting so challenging the transition into that. You know, I was literally verbally hearing why it's so hard, you know, in the house next to me, because no one's, no one's like mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, watch me. At this point in my life, and that can be a challenge.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Yeah, definitely Right, because it's where you put your attention and focus, but also where your kids put their attention and focus Right, and so, as they're younger, their attention and focus is on you. Right, you are the full-time, 24-7 model for what life looks like and you know guidance, and one of my favorite sayings is like uh, you know, I taught you everything you know, but not everything I know. Right. That's how we act as parents is we try and teach our kids everything that we know before they go right off right. And then, as they get older and they start to do things for themselves and start to see life a little bit differently, like that role kind of slowly dwindles until you get fired. Literally, you drop them off at college, you come home, you got fired from your job, you know, part time you're like a consultant yes, like a 1090, like a 1099 employee

Speaker 2: 23:35

is like yeah, you know I'll reach out to you when I need you that.

Speaker 1: 23:38

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 23:41

And that is so hard to wrap your head around, because it does not only do. You come home and the house is quiet, but the focus is gone.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Correct, correct, that's. You're exactly right. Like, all of a sudden, you got fired. And the crazy part about it all, jay, the crazy part about it all is we did this ourselves. Is we did this ourselves. Like we left home and we, you know, had children. We've actually done this ourselves, you know, quote unquote, to our parents.

Speaker 1: 24:11

So you would think that when it comes time for us to launch our own kids, we, you know, we would look at that and go, well, yeah, like, this is the natural order, and there is a piece of your brain that knows that, yes, this is the natural order.

Speaker 1: 24:23

I did this. Now it's time for my kids to do this, and your brain knows that, but your heart has a harder time catching up to it. So, even though you know it and you know it's what's supposed to be happening, the last thing you need to hear from people is well, this is what you were supposed to do and this is what you launched them for, and they're like no, I don't need to hear any of that, because your heart takes a minute to catch up to literally how fast time has flown, and I think that's the piece that makes parents sad as well. It's not like you're sad that your, your child, is going off and pursuing their goals and dreams and, maybe you know, doing great things with their life. You're sad at how fast the time went. And for someone just to go just be proud, it's, it's um, it's annoying.

Speaker 3: 25:17

It's like a slap in the face. Yes, it's very demeaning Like please don't say Annoying it's like a slap in the face.

Speaker 1: 25:19

Yes, it's very demeaning, like, please don't say that to empty nesters, please just don't tell nesters to just be proud because you're assuming that we're not. We're proud, we're very proud. We're also sad and lost and confused and excited and all the things and kind of trying to settle into this new reality that we knew cognitively was coming because we did it, but you you just don't know emotionally how it's going to feel. And I think just talking about it more, having more empathy and not saying dumb things to empty nesters would be a really great start and just a little bit more empathy. And the other piece that I also noticed was that everyone asks about the kids but no one asks about the parents.

Speaker 1: 26:07

Yes, everyone asks about how they're doing in school or how they. You know, and our youngest actually was in Hong Kong last year for a job that's across on the other side of the planet, which is really hard to put your child on a plane for them to go to Hong Kong. Very cool, very hard and everyone asked about how she was doing. Very few people asked about how we were doing. So just note, if you have new empty nesters in your life, ask them how they are doing before you ask about the kids, because chances are they're not doing well and they need you to. You know, hype them up a little bit and, maybe you know, ask about them and then ask about the kids, because the kids are probably settling in fine, the parents probably not so much.

Speaker 2: 26:57

That's true, that's true. Here's something that I think has maybe perhaps made it harder for us. We're probably like the first generation where, yes, we left home, left our parents to become empty nesters and then now our kids are leaving. I think the difference is, when we left home, our parents said, here's a quarter and call if you have trouble Right yeah. When we left home, our parents said, here's a quarter and call if you have trouble Right yeah. Like the connection, the all time connection through, you know, smartphones, I think is exacerbating the transition to emptiness. I don't know your thoughts on that.

Speaker 1: 27:32

I also think the pandemic for me personally and I don't know about other parents, but for me personally. I got extra time with my girls.

Speaker 2: 27:43

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:44

Because they were in school in New York City and they came home, which is horrible for them. It was extra time for me. But I think that probably tripled the hardness of transitioning into empty nesting because I did get that extra time, the hardness of transitioning into empty nesting because I did get that extra time. And when they're older and you're older, I think you have a greater appreciation of that time. I think when you're in the thick of when they're littles and you're just trying to get through the day, you don't necessarily appreciate the time with them quite as much that's been my experience anyway necessarily appreciate the time with them quite as much. That's been my experience anyway. And when they're older and you, you really have a better understanding how fast time goes.

Speaker 1: 28:26

The fact that I got that extra time, I was so grateful for it, even amidst a horrible life situation and even though I knew it was not the best situation for them, I was so grateful for that time. And then the back end of that, the thing that came then back and, you know, punched me in the gut, was that it made the transition into them growing up and moving or again making their own money and their own decisions, having significant others. All that it made it harder for me. So there was a give and a take with that pandemic, but I think the pandemic has made this a little bit different. I just, I think to your point, our generation, the parents, were like, okay, go get married now and have children. And just the gap between us and, you know, graduating college, for example, and then getting married and having children, that gap was so small that they were onto their next role.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Right, quickly, quicker.

Speaker 1: 29:26

And the gap now is so much greater. Like, my oldest daughter is past the age where I was already married and had her. She's already older than that and so the gap is widening, and so I think that makes it a little more like loosey-goosey for parents, like wait, what am I supposed to be doing? Because we have no role model for this. Gen X is kind of the first ones. We have no role models. Our parents sent us off if we went to college, or maybe we got married before that, whatever and then we had kids and they were right into being grandparents. We are not doing that, gen X isn't doing that, and we don't have anyone that showed us how to do this. So we're a little discombobulated on this whole. How are we supposed?

Speaker 1: 30:12

to do it Because we didn't see anyone do it.

Speaker 2: 30:15

Yeah, where's the roadmap?

Speaker 1: 30:16

Where's the roadmap? Where's the instruction guide?

Speaker 2: 30:24

Yeah, that's right, we are creating it. We are creating it, but I I think your point is valid about the pandemic is like we did get extra time with them at home. We didn't suck for them.

Speaker 2: 30:27

They didn't have the full experience of college, correct, like we had the full experience of college but we had a longer runway to the launch of them, and for me in particular, it just hit me, like my son did, a fifth year of college and so that made um him finishing the same time. My daughter was finishing, or like a year apart or something like that, but we moved her into her senior apartment, uh, or into her apartment, her first adult apartment, like right before she graduated college, but we moved my son in the very next week to his first adult apartment because he stayed home a little bit longer, like looking for a job.

Speaker 2: 31:02

We had moved in a transition so to put them in both their apartments, like within a week, and each other, having had, like them, go off to college separately, but slowly drip home through the pandemic. And that was where it was like oh, it was just. I would imagine it or liken it to if you have children but your children are twins and those are the only children you have and they both go off to college at the same time.

Speaker 1: 31:24

Yes, yeah, yeah. I also think that I learned. I didn't know this, but I learned that when I took our youngest, because I always did college drop off because we were in football season. So when I took our youngest to New York city to go to college in fall of 2019, I was like, okay, this is empty nesting. And I came home and we were in football season, so we still had a lot going on pre pandemic, whatever. But I thought that that was empty nesting and what I learned was that was practice.

Speaker 1: 31:58

That was like dress rehearsal for empty nesting, cause when they're in college, they're still dependent on you. They're still coming home for their breaks. They're you know it's. It's not until they actually have a job. And you know, our oldest lives in DC. Now our middle one lives in Los Angeles. The youngest one is home right now, just in between contracts. But it's once they get a job and make money and have a significant other and they're doing things out and about in the world without asking you or telling you or anything that you're like wait what is happening. That was when it really. That was when it hit me. I thought empty nesting started when we took the youngest one to college and I was incorrect. That was a dress rehearsal for the transition and emotions that I went through over the past couple of years.

Speaker 2: 32:54

Yeah, so what is empty nesting? What is it? What is that? Tell me what you think empty nesting is.

Speaker 1: 32:59

To me, I think it's when they're if they choose to go to college or whatever, wherever they go out of high school, whenever, when they are out of your house with employment, that is, making them money and making them decisions, and they're not asking your advice or your opinions or your permission. You know, you, you open up Instagram and there's one of them in you know Seattle or something. You're like wait, what? Like, what's your wait? You're traveling with them and I didn't know that. And, yes, they are, and that's okay, Cause they are grown up adults making their own money and their own decisions.

Speaker 1: 33:41

That was empty nesting to me. It was the, it was the jobs, it was more financial autonomy, it was relationships and it just felt like it happened quickly and and it was a lot for me to process at one time. So that's why I always laugh when people are like, oh, they're in college, I'm an empty nester. I'm like, oh, girly, no, you're not practice, you know exactly where they are, because you may or may not be putting that bill, but they're probably coming home to you for every, for breaks and weekends and to do laundry and such, and it just shifts when you know they moved to LA for their job and they've got to figure out where do you get the car fixed? And I'm going to travel and see my friends this weekend and I'm going to do whatever. And you're like wait what? And you're just not involved in any of that, as you shouldn't be. But that's hard.

Speaker 2: 34:41

Hard, yeah, yeah that. That it's the concept of letting go and moving on. And people are like, wait what? Yes, like I'm supposed to let go and move on yes and it's like yes and that is the exact frame.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Wait what that's exactly what I felt like I was doing for several years Like wait what?

Speaker 3: 35:00

Wait, what, what?

Speaker 1: 35:01

is happening with that. You nailed it. I need a shirt with that, because that is what I feel like. I walked around saying a lot. It is your heart, your emotions, your spirit that has to play catch up, and there's not a timeline for that. You know, how everyone moves into this new season of life is different. Some people may have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever. Other people may have a harder time. Everyone's timeline is different. I just think we can help everyone navigate it more easily, with more confidence, a little bit more joy, a little bit more calm, if we talk about it more and talk about the fact that you're going to feel all the feelings and that all the feelings are valid and it's okay to let your kids know that you're feeling all the feelings and that you're working on it.

Speaker 2: 36:00

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what you talk. You know a lot. You've mentioned the word mental health a lot throughout you know conversation so far and a lot of mental health is dealing with your feelings, right, and so people are so afraid to actually feel a feeling, right, know what that feels like in your body, know where it shows up. And I know you know people out there may be listening and be like, well, that's very woohoo ish, but like well, no, that's literally how your body works. Yes, like you can't have a thought without a feeling. Yeah, it doesn't. They're not separated. You can't have a thought and have no feeling attached to it. It's automatic Thought and feeling, thought and feeling, thought and feeling. And then those thoughts and feelings drive what you do, right, how you respond or not to any given situation.

Speaker 2: 36:41

If you don't know how those two work in tandem and actually know, oh, I can feel I'm getting angry. Yeah Right, I can feel it in my jaw. My jaw is starting to clench, boom, great. Or I'm feeling sad. Where does that show up? Well, it feels like a lump in my throat or like somebody sitting in my chest. Awesome, feel it, because then, once you feel it and know exactly how it's done, you can move past it quicker than letting it spiral and take you down the river of misery.

Speaker 1: 37:04

Yeah, and women have a lot of feelings about our feelings, feelings about how we're feeling, so we need to work on that too. I think, as a generation, probably our coping skills are less.

Speaker 1: 37:18

We're kind of in a weird space, because I think Gen X is the generation whose parents were very much okay with them being bored and letting them figure it out, but now we all have phones and so we scroll or do things that are less healthy other than, to your point, feeling our feelings. I also learned that when we had a lot of things kind of happen at the same time and this will not be true for everyone, but this was, this, was, this is my lived experience. For us, our truth was we moved. My husband retired from football coaching, we moved to a new place that, while we were very excited, we didn't know anyone. Our girls were gone, life was just different and there was an energy vacuum in my life in my head in my heart there was an energy vacuum and we all have generational baggage.

Speaker 1: 38:09

We all have generational trauma. That baggage and trauma that I had pushed down for a lot of years decided it would be the perfect opportunity to come out and play. So that made the transition for me empty nesting even more challenging, because I also had a lot of generational baggage and trauma wrapped up in it that I had to navigate and wade through. That was tied into how I was feeling about the girls and all of it. So if, if you're a little bit before, if, if you haven't quite got to empty nesting and you think that sounds kind of silly, just be prepared that when there is an energy vacuum, often your brain will now try to fill it and sometimes it's not always the most positive of thoughts and feelings that fill it. And I believe that everybody needs therapy. Everybody needs to be going to therapy. I don't care if you think you need therapy. You don't think you have stuff. We all have stuff.

Speaker 1: 39:12

We are human beings on this planet carrying baggage and trauma and stuff generationally and part of our job is to lighten that load for our kids and so the work that I do on me waiting through that, that generational baggage and that trauma and that junk that I've carried for a long time.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Part of that work that I do on me lightens the load for my girls because I maybe stop some of those behaviors, words, actions, thoughts that I've been carrying, that I was passing on to them.

Speaker 1: 39:47

We're all going to pass the junk on, but the amount that we pass on we can take some control in that.

Speaker 1: 39:55

And that was part of the challenge for empty nesting for me is that I also had a lot of junk that I had been carrying around that when everything was really busy I didn't have to deal with. And then, when everything was less busy, it came out to play and I had to deal with it and thank goodness I had to because it has to be dealt with at some point. And navigating that and making mistakes and letting my girls see that I'm navigating it and talking about therapy with them and going through that is really powerful for them to see as well, because it's an okay thing to let your kids know that you are not just a parent but you're also a human and that you're working on you and that gives them a better roadmap for when they get to this season. So I think that's all part of the empty net nesting process as well, as there could be some junk that comes up that you're going to have to process, and please do go to therapy and process it. You will be better off because of it.

Speaker 2: 40:52

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like I fully believe, like when you work on yourself and get better, it's not just for you, no, no it's for everybody in your life.

Speaker 2: 41:01

yes, right, and so just imagine what the world would be like if everybody was working on themselves. So people are often like there's a stigma with therapy and maybe even coaching, right. So you know, therapy is like going backwards to figure out, okay, what's keeping you stuck, and then coaching helps you move forward. That's kind of like the simplest way to describe both of them. If you're not doing either, then you're stuck. You are, you stay stagnant, you're in the middle. But professional athletes have coaches. Sure, they have all different kinds of coaches. Sure, they have a nutritionist. They have a weight you know, strength and weight training coach. They have a position coach. They have coaches out the wazoo. Why wouldn't you do the same thing for yourself?

Speaker 1: 41:44

I always say I don't cut my own hair. I do not cut my own hair, so I cannot fix my own brain. If I go to someone to cut my hair which is much less serious than someone fixing my brain, you know, I think we have to get over that and I do think that, honestly, our children's generation, the millennials and Gen Zers, are doing a much better job of talking about therapy and mental health, and we're almost taking our cues from them. But I'm okay with that too. We can learn from our kids as much as we can teach our kids. So it's a really powerful thing for them to see you working on you yeah, 100%, I love that. So it's a really powerful thing for them to see you working on you.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Yeah, a hundred percent, and I love that. Like to be open and transparent and honest with kind of how you're living life and the changes you want to make and how you want to get better only helps them, and vice versa.

Speaker 1: 42:32

Right, yeah, cause we're going to live with them as grownups for the rest of our lives. And yes, you know I had to have a honest conversation with my girls at one point and be like listen, I know I have to figure this stuff out and you're not getting it right either, like we're all human None of us are getting this right but my goal is that we have a really great relationship for the rest of time. So we're going to probably going to go through some uncomfortable patches as we work on this, because that's my goal is a really great relationship with my kids, because I like my daughters as much as I love them as their mom. I really like them. They're funny, they're smart, they're way cooler than I am, or ever was, and they're well-traveled, they're articulate.

Speaker 1: 43:19

I really like them.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Well, I really want to spend time with them.

Speaker 1: 43:23

No one wants to spend time with a mom who's just talking about how sad she is all the time.

Speaker 1: 43:28

So I better get this stuff figured out because I want my relationship with my girls to be amazing for the rest of the time that I get to have the opportunity to be on this planet, and that means I'm going to have to do some work. I'm get to have the opportunity to be on this planet, and that means I'm going to have to do some work. I'm going to have to figure it out, and if I don't, then I'm choosing not to, and sometimes we choose to stay stuck in that sad. For a little bit I felt like I feel like I probably chose to stay stuck there longer than I should have, and that's also a little bit part of the journey. And then you choose to do the work and you figure it out and and they see that too and um, I just I want to make sure that I'm the kind of person that my kids want to be around for a really long time, cause I really like them.

Speaker 1: 44:12

I want them to want to hang out with me, so I need to do the work on me to make sure that that happens.

Speaker 2: 44:18

Yeah, when you become invested in your own life, you become interesting to your kids. Yes, Right, they're like oh look at that, like why are you doing that? Why are you taking that on? Why are you attempting that? You know you're trying something different, you're learning something new.

Speaker 1: 44:31

They're like oh, I actually want to know you more than just my parent. Yes, yes, yes, and the goal really is that they call or come home sometime and like you're not there because you're out like doing whatever cool thing is that you're doing, and they're like wait, wait, well, my parents have a life.

Speaker 2: 44:48

Yes, yes, we do Maybe it takes us a minute to get there but we do, we're working on getting there. That's right and for everybody listening. It's okay not to text back or not to pick up the call right away. Like you're, you can have a life and do other things. You don't have to wait for them to text or call you and be on call for that.

Speaker 1: 45:04

That's a great reminder. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:07

Although it is kind of funny because they do expect that immediate, like where were you?

Speaker 1: 45:10

A thousand percent. Oh my God, a thousand percent. They're like do you, what are you doing? Maybe I was doing something else, maybe I was taking a walk, maybe.

Speaker 2: 45:18

I just didn't want to talk to you at that particular moment so good. So good. As we wrap up, I'm curious what's your life motto?

Speaker 1: 45:27

Oh my gosh, that's a great question. You know, I will say I think that it's show up when I think about it. My dad really modeled that for me. He would say that little phrase you know, shower, shave, show up. He would say it occasionally, but I also watched him do that. I have a very different relationship with my mom, where a lot of this generational baggage comes from. So when I think about who modeled what I would want this season of my life to be, it really was my dad.

Speaker 1: 45:59

And that mindset around you show up. You show up and do the thing, whether you feel like doing the thing or not. You show up when it's inconvenient. You show up so that you can put your head on the pillow at night knowing that you did everything to be your best and do your best that day. And I think that that really has become something that I've I've absorbed and tried to live by.

Speaker 1: 46:21

The work to feel better is not easy, but I'm going to show up for it. I'm going to show up for it because my relationship with my girls matter, I matter, my goals and dreams matter. This life matters. I'm going to show up and do the small things well so that we can create a really big, amazing life together. I think if you just take emotions off the table sometimes sometimes and simply show up and do the work, you'll get the emotions you were after on the other side of doing the work.

Speaker 1: 46:58

No one really loves to work out, but I sure do love how I feel on the other side of doing the work. No one really loves to work out, but I sure do love how I feel on the other side of it. I don't think a lot. A lot of people, maybe some people do but I don't love going to therapy, but I love how I feel on the other side of it. So I'm going to show up and do those things, whether I feel like it or not in my life, because on the other side of it is probably what I'm looking for. So I would say my motto is show up.

Speaker 2: 47:24

Show up so good. Julie, thank you for showing up here today and sharing a little bit of your story with this emptiness life. I so appreciate it. And for showing up in the world how you show up there for the people who follow you and model after that right You're doing so needed. So thank you for like talking about it.

Speaker 1: 47:43

When you popped up on my Instagram.

Speaker 3: 47:45

I'm like wait a minute someone else is talking about this.

Speaker 1: 47:48

That's amazing. So thank you for these conversations and for getting this topic out into more everyday, normal conversation so that we you and I can maybe shorten the learning curve for people who are kind of coming up in this next generation and that they navigate this season a little bit better maybe than we did and understand that it's not an end. It is truly just the beginning of a new season. I love that.

Speaker 2: 48:16

I love that, yeah, and to be the model for it yes. I like that idea, like the more we can share, the more we can get out there in front of it, so people can say, oh, there is something between when the kids leave for school and when we retire like life doesn't stop.

Speaker 1: 48:30

For sure, for sure.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Love it, love it. Thanks again for being here.

Speaker 1: 48:33

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 48:36

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years? If so, head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact. One Media LLC. All rights reserved.