Speaker 1: 0:00

I help people with all of the basic money management skills that I wish I had had when I had started my professional career. Learning them gave me what I needed to feel comfortable that I could leave that profession and I could do something else that maybe wasn't as lucrative but was much more aligned with how I wanted to live my life.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting. If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the Empty Nest Coach, Jay Ramsden.

Speaker 3: 0:40

Jessica Medina. Welcome to the show. It's so good to see you, my friend.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Thanks for having me, Jay. I'm excited for our conversation.

Speaker 3: 0:47

You know why I'm excited? It's because, well, you have this wonderful business who kind of helps attorneys figure out money. But I would imagine that they stockpile a lot of debt too going into the law school. And I think it would be great for my folks whose kids are either in college still or just out of college. It's like, how do we figure that stuff out, the money, like what's in your brain? Tell me what goes on when you are talking to your people. I'm sure there's some benefit for my folks.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Yeah, a lot of my clients have either recently graduated law school or maybe are in their first 10 years of practice, and many of them are still carrying a mortgage-sized debt from that law school experience, and so one of the things that I specialize in is helping people deal with that level of student loan debt.

Speaker 1: 1:37

The typical American graduate has about $35,000 of student loan debt, whereas the typical law school graduate has over $145,000 of student loan debt, whereas the typical law school graduate has over $145,000 of student loan debt.

Speaker 1: 1:48

So, as you can imagine, the strategies for tackling those different types of debts are very different, and so I work with my clients a lot on making sure that they are putting their student loan debt in the right priority order of all of their financial goals, and I think this is something that a lot of you know younger professionals coming out of school really struggle with, because so much of the personal finance world is really beating them over the head about making sure that they pay off those loans as quickly as possible. It's a responsibility that they've taken on, that that's what their career is for, and if they can't do it, then there's something wrong with them, and so, to the extent that you know there are parents that are also involved in this dynamic. They also may have brought some ideas about debt overall student loan debt in particular and so I really love helping people maneuver the emotional journey of working on paying off their student loans and making sure that it doesn't overshadow other financial goals they may have for their life.

Speaker 3: 2:47

Oh, so good. Like I'm curious, what is the like number one emotional concern that people have when it comes to tackling debt?

Speaker 1: 2:57

So debt, I think, overall has a lot of shame attached to it, because it's almost a sign of irresponsibility. Right, debt for many people appears to mean that you didn't have the resources when you needed it and you couldn't wait right. So there's all of this mix of oh, if I had been a better steward with my money, or if I had been a better person, I wouldn't have had to have taken out the debt in the first place. You're automatically assumed to be behind the starting line if you have to start from a negative. Now I have a lot of thoughts on how debt is treated in this country and we don't have time on this podcast to get into all of them.

Speaker 3: 3:40

It could be another show, that's right.

Speaker 1: 3:42

But there are different types of debt, and I think that, sadly, many people lump all of the different types of debt together and put them under the category of evil, terrible for your financial health, an irresponsible decision and something that you have to take care of immediately and as quickly as possible.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Specifically with respect to student loan debt, this is a particular type of debt with special rules that apply, especially if we're thinking about the federal student loan debt world.

Speaker 1: 4:11

There are just different rules in terms of when you have to pay it back, what the terms are going to be, what programs are available in terms of relief from this type of debt, and so I think it's very important to carve this out from the more general high-interest debt conversation, or even low-interest debt conversation, because there are so many twists and turns to the student loan world, and anyone who's been paying attention for the past four years knows that the student loan world is in a tumult right now. We're recording this podcast in fall of 2024 and student loans are on the docket for the Supreme Court. That's crazy. Why is the Supreme Court talking about student loan debt? But that's the world that we're in right now, and so I help my clients maneuver that really complicated environment and be able to take advantage of whatever relief programs may be out there and also just help them understand that whatever emotions they're having about debt could be separated from some of the numerical strategies that we can use to tackle it over their financial journey.

Speaker 3: 5:16

Yeah, I think that's a great point, jessica, because I think oftentimes the average human in America right takes on debt for certain reasons. The average human in America right takes on debt for certain reasons, but what they forget is like wealthy people leverage debt to make investments right in property and other things and businesses to actually get wealthier. So it's not a bad thing. It's just like how do you approach it and I think the mindset piece is key. It's like sometimes we have to right, especially student debt for college.

Speaker 1: 5:46

Exactly this is for education. This is to provide more opportunities, and you know, I have a very soft spot for people who felt like they were in a position where they had to take out a lot of debt in order to create those opportunities for themselves. I do have clients who have no student loan debt. They never did. Maybe their family was able to help out, which is a wonderful, wonderful privilege to be able to start your career with a leg up and start at zero, as opposed to in the negative. But it's that very education, especially for my clients who are primarily practicing attorneys it's that education that opens the doors to the type of financial life that really gives them everything that they've been looking for Right.

Speaker 3: 6:27

So if you had some advice for the people out there it's going to be parents who are listening who may be trying to help their kids right, get through like, how are you going to tackle this? Because it's a conversation, I think that needs to be had and it's an uncomfortable one for sure. I think that needs to be had and it's an uncomfortable one, for sure. Obviously, attorneys who are out there with student law debt are like they're working towards to pay that off. They're maybe not having that same conversation with parents, but I'm sure you have some tips or ideas to help folks out there with that conversation.

Speaker 1: 6:58

No, absolutely, and, like with many things, we like these conversations to start early and to occur often. I think undergraduate education is actually one of the most difficult things to pay for in this country. I have the privilege of working with a lot of folks who carry a vast amount of graduate school debt. That's because federal loans will pay for your entire graduate school level education. They'll pay for the entire cost of tuition, including room and board. It's not the case that you can get federal loans at the undergrad level to that extent, and that creates a real bind for parents who want to send their children to the best school that they got into, whether or not that school wants to help pay for that experience for the child.

Speaker 1: 7:42

And so, with my parent clients, we often have conversations about where does college savings sit on your list of priorities? Are you someone who is carrying a lot of student debt yourself and you don't want your children to have that experience? Are you already doing well on your own financial goals in terms of preparing for your retirement, in terms of if you're trying to move to a larger house, being ready to take on those additional responsibilities? And so I think it's important to have conversations with children early about what family resources may be available, because that's going to be the bulk of where their college gets paid for, unless the kids are able to seek out merit scholarships, unless the school is a type of school that offers a lot of aid to families that might not otherwise qualify for it because of their incomes.

Speaker 1: 8:30

And so I think it's really important to come up with the matrix of different sources that you're going to use for your children's college education, and some of that can be on the child's shoulders as well. Some of that can be on the child's shoulders as well, but just making sure that they understand what is the range that you are willing to contribute toward their education, because, especially at the undergraduate level, there aren't a lot of federal options to get you know, safe, cheap money for school. It's going to come from somewhere else, and I know so many parents that are just heartbroken of the amount of loans that they may have to take out if they really want their kids to be able to attend particular universities Right.

Speaker 3: 9:10

Right? No, I think that's that's great advice to for. To keep them, for folks to keep in the back of their head. Is that as you are going through the process, and if you're already through the process, it's like all right. Well, how do you figure out how you're going to help if you want to? I know a lot of parents do Not everybody does but a lot of parents do help their kids offset the loans that they had to take, and there's some benefit of taking loans right.

Speaker 1: 9:35

It helps build credit for the kids themselves, but being mindful of how much and what does that look like, and what kind of lifestyle not only for your kids but for yourself that you want to live in later, yeah, I also see a lot of families, if they have the bandwidth, the children will take out loans in their own name while they're in school and the family will pay them off and then the child will be put on a payment plan through a family loan.

Speaker 1: 10:05

I see that with a lot of my clients and when we're doing transition planning because I primarily help attorneys figure out either another career that they might want to explore that maybe doesn't pay what their current lawyer salary is, or choosing to practice law differently, which also often comes with a pay cut when we're trying to figure out where are the levers that we can pull in terms of adjusting, you know what income is needed to support your lifestyle. Being able to take a pause on a family loan is very different than being able to take a pause on a loan that's held by a bank or a loan that's held by the federal government. So, to the extent you know, your listeners are of the means where they are able to alleviate some of the immediate stress that their kids might be feeling from their student loan debt load and be able to shoulder that be getting you know through their student loan provider and have that be how they kind of pay for their education on a timetable that makes more sense for their career and for their financial growth.

Speaker 3: 11:12

Yeah, I think that's. I think that's an important thing to know and for the folks listening, like, if you're not in that space or that you don't have that ability, there's no shame in that. Right, that is not a common thing. It is something that lots of people do do, but also other folks don't, and that's okay. But I think the most important thing to take away from this first part of the conversation is just to start having conversations. Right, have conversations, I think you said, frequently, and start early and don't stop. In terms of, but you also have to see I think this is something like in my own experience, like as a Gen Xer and having kids who are, I guess, like the right on the cusp, millennial and Gen Z is that their thought about money and the future is different. Right, in terms of like economy and inflation and what long-term life looks like, they have a different viewpoint than we do.

Speaker 1: 12:11

Yeah, they certainly have a lot less confidence that things are going to go as well, as many of us always just kind of assumed that they would, because that is what we had seen previously Right right.

Speaker 3: 12:24

How are you taking what you teach and living that in your life?

Speaker 1: 12:28

Oh gosh. So I am naturally an optimist. I also am of Generation X. I snuck in there with a 1979 birthday. Well welcome. I've been here the whole time, Jay.

Speaker 3: 12:43

The whole time.

Speaker 1: 12:45

But, you know, I think what I've been seeing, primarily in my younger clients, is a really much stronger entrepreneurial spirit and a much more openness to non-traditional career paths. Now, granted, I work primarily with attorneys, but the attorneys that I work with are often interested in pursuing something outside of the law, or at least outside of the typical large law firm. Partner in a law firm work there for 45 years trajectory, and so I think what I've seen in some of the younger generations is that they are much more open to a little bit more risk and aligning their spending and their income generation with the other lifestyle values that they carry right. It's not worth it to them to go work somewhere where they're going to have to kill themselves, you know, burn out, suffer immense amounts of anxiety and stress and overwhelm in order to just be able to get a paycheck.

Speaker 1: 13:42

I think some of the prior generations saw those careers and those paychecks as kind of the top of the mountain, regardless of the price that had to be paid for it, and I just don't see that with the younger generations, which I think is great. It does mean that we need to be even more mindful of how we're allocating those spending resources right, if we're not going to be going after you know the top tier salaries you know in your industry, that means that your lifestyle might also look a little different and we need to be prepared for that. Lifestyle might also look a little different and we need to be prepared for that. And so it's always interesting to me to kind of I think there must be two parts of Generation Z one that is like on TikTok and on cruises and all flying places, and the other one that you know just wants to live off of the land and do homesteading and, you know, write a blog.

Speaker 3: 14:33

It's fascinating to me, I agree. I agree it's interesting, right, but I think every generation has their own thing that they're known for for sure. But I think I love this conversation for the folks that are listening because it's a topic I think that some people think is taboo to talk about in terms of like, how do you fund things? How do you pay off student debt? What does that look like? And it's just a tough conversation for people to get into with their kids sometime. So it's been helpful hearing kind of how you process that with folks and I love the piece that is like what do you want your lifestyle to look like? That's how you figure out how you manage the debt.

Speaker 1: 15:13

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 15:14

Yeah, so good. What's one thing in your own personal life, in your empty nest journey how long have you been an empty nester? Now it's relatively recent, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:25

It is relatively recent. Our two youngest we have, the twins are the youngest of our kids. They graduated high school in 2021. And I would say we have officially been empty nesters since spring of 2022. So that was when everyone had their own place, was off on their own adventures, and my husband and I decided to begin our next phase of life as empty nesters and as future vineyard owners here in Asheville, North Carolina.

Speaker 3: 15:57

Yeah, Entrepreneurial, and that's what I think I love about your story too. Like I'm glad we talked about what you do to help people, but your story is fascinating as well because you're kind of running it in parallel, Like your kids are trying to figure out what they want to do with the rest of your life and you've you're doing that right. Your husband is off learning about how to become a vineyard owner and you have pivoted into running your own company. You got out of what you were doing before, so I'd love to hear a little bit more about that journey for folks so they understand like, yeah, you can get to a certain point in life and pivot and it's okay.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yeah, it was, you know. And Jay, you and I have talked about this a little bit. You know offline because Jay and I are friends in real life, and you know the empty nest phase. I had been preparing for it mentally and strategically for probably a decade leading up to my twin boys, you know, kind of getting ready to graduate from high school. I had the boys when I was in law school. They were a surprise.

Speaker 1: 16:58

It was a surprise that they were twins, and I basically spent the first part of my career just trying to keep my head above water as a single mom. I had not met my husband yet, and so there was just a lot of stress for me and overwhelm as a practicing attorney in Washington DC running a family, trying to just be a good lawyer at my firm and then at the government. And then I did meet my husband when my kids were in their teen years. My husband's children were already, you know, off, were already grown and flown, as you say, and so you know, we were a bit of a mixed family for a little while, but we always knew that when the boys kind of went off and started on their own lives, that we wanted to have a second chapter. My husband is a 30-year now retired Army veteran. So he put in a lot of time and energy and effort and heart into serving this country part into serving this country and he wanted to do something for himself but also just something completely different in that next phase of life and I knew I didn't want to be a lawyer. So I said I got to get out of here and I got to fix this money stuff, because being a lawyer and living a lawyer lifestyle is expensive.

Speaker 1: 18:14

I graduated with over $200,000 of student loans myself and so, you know, kind of digging myself out of that hole, creating enough prosperity between me and my husband that we would feel comfortable on taking this next leap together.

Speaker 1: 18:29

I think that was, you know, partly about his appreciation that risk is important for life, mixed with my pessimism as a lawyer of what, all the things that could go wrong and we make a great team.

Speaker 1: 18:42

We never agree on anything but we come out with a good compromise somewhere in the middle between you know just completely. You know never doing anything and doing all the things. But so part of my journey was also figuring out what I wanted to do if I didn't want to be a lawyer anymore and that was a bit of an existential crisis. I think lawyering is kind of one of those careers that you go to law school, you become an attorney and it's kind of what you're supposed to do for the rest of your life. It is a profession, it is a practice, it is meant to be done for decades and I just didn't love it after a while and that terrified me because I wasn't sure what else I would do. I thought I only had to make one decision when I was in college of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.

Speaker 3: 19:25

Be done with it. Yeah, done, check that off the list.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Right, never have to make that decision again. And then it reared its ugly head about 10 years into my practice, and so I did end up finding this niche in the financial industry as an accredited financial counselor. I love what I do because I used to work at the Securities and Exchange Commission and I no longer do anything with respect to investments. I don't advise on any securities products. I'm not allowed to touch them. It's great. I don't do anything with tax planning, insurance, estate planning.

Speaker 1: 19:57

I help people with all of the basic money management skills that I wish I had had when I had started my professional career. We won't talk about what my financial position would have been had. I had these skills earlier on, when I was really making money, but learning them gave me what I needed to feel comfortable that I could leave that profession and I could do something else that maybe wasn't as lucrative but was much more aligned with how I wanted to live my life, and so becoming an entrepreneur running a business that is 100% remote, that I can do from anywhere in the world, was part of my value system.

Speaker 3: 20:34

It was part of my value system no-transcript with both of you, because obviously you're doing it together but separately, like together but separate, kind of like. What's one thing that you've learned about yourself this past year?

Speaker 1: 21:21

Well, one thing that I've learned is, as much as I love variety and adventure and excitement, I do enjoy having a community, and when we first went off on our emptiness journey, we had been living in the DC area, in the Washington DC metro area, for I had been there for nearly 20 years and I had a strong community of friends. You know I had worked at multiple places in the area. I knew all the restaurants. You know I knew all the neighborhoods. I knew how to avoid traffic. You know, I knew all the neighborhoods, I knew how to avoid traffic.

Speaker 1: 22:13

And after the boys went off to high school, my husband and every morning, or at least every week, in a different city.

Speaker 1: 22:17

It was very exciting to be able to travel around when we hadn't been able to travel for so long, see people we hadn't seen, see places I had never imagined that I would get a chance to see. But I also craved being able to see the same faces over and over again and I didn't think that I would miss that as much as I did. And so this year we officially relocated to Asheville, north Carolina, which is the most lovely mountain town in Western North Carolina, and it really has been nice starting to meet people and see them a couple times a month and be able to continue conversations that we started earlier and I think I had taken that for granted. You know, kind of just living life the way that it is. And then I loved the traveling aspect so much, but I also like being able to come home and I really like being able to come home here able to come home and I really like being able to come home here.

Speaker 3: 23:21

Yeah, yeah, how do you meet people? That's like I think some empty nesters struggle with. Like, yeah, this, what I hear a lot is like their friends were friends from the kids school right and with sports teams or or the drama club or the band or whatever. Like that's how their friend groups were formed over time and then, as the kids go on to college, those friend groups just naturally kind of just dissipate and so you're left trying to figure out how do I meet new people? What does that look like? So what's the strategy that you do to make that happen?

Speaker 1: 23:49

I've had this exact conversation with at least three people over the past two weeks. I think it's fascinating. So now you're an expert Perfect, basically, because I've done the research. Also, I've been experimenting on how to meet people because I loved moving to Asheville, but also we didn't know anyone here.

Speaker 1: 24:08

This was a completely new city for us and my husband is kind of busy with his stuff and his world is a little separate from mine in terms of, you know he needs to be in, you know, immersed in the vineyard world. So he wants to be connected to vineyard owners and people in you know, the farming industry and otherwise, whereas you know I have a strong connection to lawyers, I have a strong connection to the financial industry, but none of those things are particularly strong in Asheville.

Speaker 3: 24:40

That is not what Asheville is known for.

Speaker 1: 24:42

No that's right. That is not the, that is not the city industry here in Asheville. And so I, you know it. It reminded me I was actually visiting my. I was visiting my father, you know, just for a weekend up in New Jersey and we went to a church picnic because he was playing. My father is a keyboardist. He has been my entire life, so his band goes around and plays, you know, at different venues.

Speaker 1: 25:05

So good, and it was a strawberry festival and everyone there had kids. It was all. The entire event was basically an excuse for people to do something with their children, and it made me realize that so much of our society is based on people being able to share the experience of their children with other people who have children. Right, all of our social activities are surrounded by that. The school structure surrounds that. That's how you meet people, right? They're people who have children around the same age as yours and when that is no longer the cornerstone of your existence. There aren't a lot of pre-made structures to help you have those interactions with people that really build bonds. And so you know I was thinking about, even when I was in DC, I was too busy to hang out with the other parents because they had different schedules than I did. It worked a lot, but I was on a competitive karaoke team because that is a.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Thing.

Speaker 1: 26:03

It exists, and DC is famous for having intramural leagues for everything Bocce ball, oh, absolutely, you know, whatever Competitive karaoke and it was how I made so many friends in the DC area. Some had kids, some didn't. You know some I have no idea what they even did for work, which is a wonderful sign coming from that, from that environment. But so I told myself I need to find places where adults want to hang out together doing something, you know, where we share an interest, and preferably in person. Because I do a lot on Zoom. I could. My whole business is on Zoom, I'm on Zoom all day.

Speaker 1: 26:42

I need that in-person energy and, if you can't tell from this podcast, I'm fairly extroverted, naturally. So I like to host, I like to be around people. I think I run a pretty good party, and so I started looking around for groups where people would just kind the staff and the owners about. You know what kind of maybe foodie groups that are around, or wine groups, what kind of vineyards people like to go visit, and so we started doing that. And most recently, as I mentioned, I'm kind of a finance nerd.

Speaker 1: 27:27

I hosted a local meetup for my Choose FI group here in Asheville. Local meetup for my Choose FI group here in Asheville. Choose FI is a great resource for anyone who's interested in the financial independence retire early movement and they have local groups in most major cities of people who are interested in financial independence. And so I said, hey, can we have a meetup? I see that there's a Facebook group and it looks like there hasn't been much activity over the summer. I would be happy to host, and so I did, and I made some new friends and I could tell that they're my people because one of them had spent last summer renovating a camper van to take a camping van, a camper van adventure around the US.

Speaker 1: 28:08

I said that's it. This is amazing, we can talk all about it. We just put our RV in storage after having traveled the US for the past two years. Let's chat, so you know. I think that finding one of the things that I love about social media is it makes it easier for us to find people who have similar interests and finding those groups. You just need someone who's willing to be a host of some sort. I am often willing to stand in that position, and so it gets easier for me to kind of make friends, meet people, because I'm willing to create the space for people to come and, you know, kind of enjoy each other's company and then do it all again the next month.

Speaker 3: 28:53

So good and like, I know there's folks listening who are introverts, who may not have the same energy or desire to do it, and it's also important for them to do it. I often talk about how can empty nesters who are introverted find other people, and I think it's just a matter of like looking at groups, like finding something that works for you. Like tonight, uh, I am extroverted but I have an introverted tinge to me. But I'm going to a men's wellness barbecue kickoff for an organization that's starting a men's wellness program and if you didn't know, like, obviously I believe in men's wellness, so, but I'm like I don't know anybody who's going, uh, and it takes me a little bit to build up my extrovertedness, and so it is a challenge for me to do that. So that's why I'm going and that maybe, for the folks who are like super introverted, is like, take that away as like a little bit of like, you can do it. Right, you just have to take the first step and decide that that's something you want to do.

Speaker 1: 29:59

Yes, and I often find if you are particularly introverted, always start with a conversation with whoever is hosting. They're very interested in making sure and invested in people having a good time at whatever the event is Such a great tip.

Speaker 1: 30:16

So start there. That's going to be an easy target. They're going to make it easy for you to have a conversation and they might introduce you to someone nice or someone who can then, you know, kind of serve as the next conversation that you have. And so you know, that's always. You know, I am, I am very extroverted, but I can also be a little nervous and shy when I'm, you know, first warming up to a space, and I always used to chat up bartenders when I would be at an event, I would always, you know, chat up whoever had, whoever was responsible for the invitation, because they have to be nice to you. It's literally their job.

Speaker 3: 30:50

As the host. As the host that's a great point, right the host is the person that you can actually have your first conversation with. I love that as you continue your emptiness journey. What's one thing you haven't done yet that you've always wanted to do?

Speaker 1: 31:07

So I have the typical you know kind of travel destinations that I haven't gotten to yet and, sadly, because my husband was in the army for 30 years, he's pretty much been everywhere, so it's really hard for me to get him as excited about, you know, going to Japan.

Speaker 1: 31:25

He's like, yeah, it's really nice there. I'm like that is not the response I was looking for. I was looking for a yes. Oh my gosh, we should totally go and then tell me later that you know all the places to go. But I think I'm actually right now on a journey to figure out what is the next big thing that I want to get done. A lot of the things that I had anticipated I would do in my life, some things that I was surprised by, but I think for me right now it really is about building community and creating a space here in a new area of the country where I can feel as comfortable and as loved and as loving toward this community as I have been in my prior communities, and that's going to take some work to build and some time, and so I'm giving myself a little bit of grace to begin building that and to hopefully be able to enjoy it for the rest of this phase.

Speaker 3: 32:27

Oh, so good. Building community I think that's an underrated skill too is like how do you build a community, especially if you go someplace new, because that is a fear of empty nesters. Is like I want to move, I want to move closer to the kids, or I want to move someplace totally different, but they're not quite sure how to go about building community.

Speaker 1: 32:47

I'm not either, so if your listeners have tips, please send them in. I'm accepting suggestions.

Speaker 3: 32:54

Well, yes, so you had mentioned a couple of things that you've done so far. Right, reaching out to groups, figuring out what it is, but that's it. I think it's just taking the time to figure out, like, what is happening in my community and meet up works and Eventbrite works. Those are some places you can go and see what's going on. No-transcript, take that as a challenge. What are you not saying yes to right now, jessica?

Speaker 1: 33:41

Well, right now I actually I just went through this is a little bit like deep in my business I just went through a quarterly planning session with one of my business coaches and I had to take some of my anticipated projects off of my Q4 list of things to do which was very underwhelming for me.

Speaker 1: 34:02

As you know, Jay, I have a problem with being underwhelmed and I'm super achievement oriented. It's one of the things that really gets me up and going. I think it's why I've done a lot of things that I have set out to do in my life. That being said, my newer goals are less about specific achievements and more about, you know, what our coach describes as the infinite game.

Speaker 1: 34:25

And so working on my infinite games, I think, is the skill that I need to work on for the rest of my life. But so part of what I'm saying no to is being overwhelmed for this next kind of holiday season. Whereas I would normally try to pile a lot of stuff on I am. I am not saying yes to a lot of extra things that I would be excited to tackle but would probably ruin this season for me.

Speaker 3: 34:51

All right, so you went the opposite way. It's not not what you're saying yes to, not saying yes to, but you're like I got to put the brakes on here, which is fine too, for sure Interesting, You're slowing down.

Speaker 1: 35:03

I am. You know I've done. I may possibly be in a different mode than I think some people find themselves. I am not necessarily someone who needs to be pushed to do more. I am someone who needs to be pulled back from doing too much, and I think a lot of that just comes from the world that I was in for a number of years. A lot of attorneys are like this. They are overly achievement focused. They will burn themselves out before giving up, regardless of whether the goal is actually something that they want at the end of the day, and that has been something that I have been working on now as an entrepreneur, where those same tendencies get carried along right Wherever.

Speaker 1: 35:55

What do they say? Wherever? Wherever you go, there you are. That's right, regardless of what career I'm in. Hey, there I am. Look at me. I am, like you know, nose to the grindstone, going really hard all the time. I've had a very good year so far and starting to think through where can I take my foot off of the gas? To not recreate the very stress, overwhelm and burnout that I created in the last phase of my life.

Speaker 1: 36:25

I'm trying to let this empty nest phase feel different than the earlier phases be feel different than the earlier phases, and that's a skill for me in terms of, you know, kind of not treating it like the earlier parts of my life where I just had to get everything done and get through it so that I could be at the end. I don't actually want to be at the end of this phase, Jay. That's a little scary.

Speaker 3: 36:47

Though we know it's coming right. That was a conversation I had the other day with someone interviewing a guest. Like you know it's coming, just like you know empty nesting coming. You know the end is coming, but how do you want to live your life between now and then? And I think that's one of the things I try and impress upon people is that every day is a chance to live your life the way you want to live it. You just have to say yes to it. Just have to say yes to it. Just have to say yes to it. Before I let you go finish this sentence for me, empty nest happiness is.

Speaker 1: 37:24

Ooh, empty nest happiness, it is community.

Speaker 3: 37:31

It's community circling back to community. Yeah, I love that. Emptiness happiness is community. It's community Circling back to community. Yeah, I love that. Emptiness happiness is community. So good.

Speaker 1: 37:37

Sometimes that community is just my husband and sometimes that community is a little bit larger.

Speaker 3: 37:44

So good, so good. All right, before you leave, where can people find you, in case they know an attorney who may need your services?

Speaker 1: 37:53

Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm prolific on there, jessicamedinallc, and my website is wwwJessicaMedinaLLCcom. There are lots of resources and blog articles for how to approach any type of career transition that folks may be interested in. If you feel like you might be taking a pay cut, then there's some strategies to help you think through what that could look like, whether you're an attorney or not.

Speaker 3: 38:19

Oh, so good. Thanks so much for being here. Totally enjoyed the conversation and I will see you around, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 38:25

Yeah, thanks, jay.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years? If so, head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact. One Media LLC. All rights reserved.