Speaker 1: 0:00

I just think that, as much as we can get those outside people in as part of the conversation, it can help keep things on track and moving in the right direction.

Speaker 2: 0:10

Yeah, there's a little bit of vulnerability in that, and sometimes we have to be vulnerable for others.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Ooh, if you are listening, write that down. Sometimes we have to be vulnerable for others. I love that, Jay.

Speaker 3: 0:27

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting. If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the Empty Nest Coach, Jay Ramsden.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Michelle Magner. Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. It's so host the Empty Nest Coach, jay Ramston. Michelle Magner, welcome to this Empty Nest Life. It's so good to see you.

Speaker 1: 0:49

So great to see you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about whatever conversation is about to unfold.

Speaker 2: 0:56

I know, right, it's always interesting, right, when you go. Either you host your own podcast obviously I've been on a guest on it and that's how we kind of met and got going. But it's always interesting to like get in a conversation to see where it goes, and that's what I love about having guests on the show. But I think what may be intriguing for my guests is kind of the work that you do. Right, you have inspired caring, which I absolutely love, especially for folks like us who are kind of in between the kids and parents, and so why don't you tell me a little bit about what you do and then we'll, we'll go from there.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Yeah, so my background is that I was the primary family caregiver for both of my grandmothers when I was age 27 to about 37. So we were growing our family.

Speaker 1: 1:39

We have three children and I. What I didn't realize at the time was that was going to be preparing me for also caring for my in-laws. My mother-in-law lived with dementia for 12 years and my father-in-law had a terminal cancer diagnosis. So basically my children's entire lives their mom has been in some form of a caregiver role. That led me to work in senior living, which I absolutely love, working with seniors and their family members and then the team members. It was such a joy to be in that space. So I realized that we have this gap in our system because we're very focused on the senior which is totally appropriate and families are really struggling to be on the same page, to know what next steps are to really manage this emotional roller coaster of being that chaos coordinator for their aging family members, while they are also potentially still raising children or have young adult children. So I created Inspired Caring and there's a podcast and some online coursework and a membership to that to really support people as they're in this role.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah, and I think it's so such an important topic. So I appreciate what you're doing, Right? So we'll talk a little bit more about how people can find you later as we end the show. But I find myself in that same spot with my own parents, Um, and my mother-in-law was living us, living with us for almost a year. She's now living with her, her son, for the summer at the beach. Not a bad way to go, right If you're going to have to hop around to two different kids. But it it raises the questions I think, like how do you actually handle that? And I'm sure there's plenty of people who listen to my show who are like literally in the same spot as is, like how do I get prepared for it? Maybe a great question to start with.

Speaker 1: 3:38

Yes, that is a great question and it's obviously very nuanced based on the family, so I'm going to answer your question without maybe answering it directly.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Understood.

Speaker 1: 3:49

You know, in the perfect world, in the best case scenario is our parents have thought through this and they have made some decisions for themselves, and as adult children we are just in position where we are now executing wishes. Most often that is not what's happening. Most often, I believe, there's five phases of caregiving and what tends to happen in families is there's been some sort of medical incident that's in phase two and as a result of that, we're having to make some immediate decisions on what to do next, to triage a current situation. But then we enter into this really gray space of it's really hard. Clearly, it's hard for people to be managing at home. They're not in position where they feel that way necessarily. So I think oftentimes some of our biggest challenges as family members is just really trying to figure out what is the actual real situation that we are managing, what's the trajectory of that and how can we get on the same page about what needs to happen and then the timeline of when those things are going to happen.

Speaker 1: 5:01

So, just as people are preparing for this next step with a family member, it's, I think, first just being curious and observing. I think there's three pillars to family caregiving and those are curiosity, communication. The three pillars are curiosity, connection and communication, and those are really with the person that we're caring for and with ourselves. So just being curious and observing and watching. What are their needs, what are their patterns of behavior? Where are you seeing spaces where there's opportunities to be of assistance? And then where can, for your own self, be curious about where maybe you jumping to conclusions? Where are you starting to get really worried?

Speaker 2: 5:56

Where can you give yourself a little grace that you don't have to have this all figured out right now because you're a new territory's kind of a long answer yeah, yes, and like I think the the part is you don't have to have it all figured out, but the learning piece right is like I, I talk about it with my brother is like my parents are living on a thin wire, right, they're Right, they're 87 and 85 and they have some health issues, but also, right now they're in a good spot, right, but they're living on a thin wire because at any moment that could change, right? So my brother and I are starting to prepare for that now. But having conversations with them, having the I think maybe the other C is courage, courage to have a conversation with your parent around it. I don't know, have you read the book, uh, being mortal by Atul Gawande?

Speaker 1: 6:53

Yes, that is. I think every healthcare practitioner would benefit from that book, and I do think every human benefits from reading that book, cause it really does talk about what do we want that quality of life to be like for ourselves?

Speaker 2: 7:08

yes, right, and I think that's the piece where you can learn now, right, in terms of like being inspired to care for your parents, is if you can read that book and find, like I think the takeaway from my brother-in-law was like, when you get to that stage in life, was that, um, they don't want to be lonely, like humans don't want to be lonely at that age, they don't want to be bored and they want to have, they want to have control, right, and so how do you have conversations around? What does that mean? And I think, like the one of the examples was like well, well, what do you want? Like, what do you want your quality of life to be like? Then I think somebody said, well, can I? That the father was like well, I want to. If, if I have surgery and I come out of it, can I still eat ice cream and watch football? And if the answer is no to that, then I don't want to have the surgery, right, like those types of things get us thinking about like that next phase of life for our parents.

Speaker 2: 8:10

I don't know, was there any takeaways for you or?

Speaker 1: 8:13

Yeah, I need to go back to my three C's because I had connected. I inserted connection, but the three C's that I believe are pillars of caregiving are curiosity, communication and compassion for the person and for ourselves.

Speaker 1: 8:28

And that does tie into the being mortal book, because sometimes the compassionate thing to do is to not necessarily take that next step with a medical intervention. The healthcare system as it stands is built not necessarily to support chronic illness. It's built on acute care. It's built around treating, triaging and treating, and I am not a physician or clinical practitioner, I'm an aspiring social gerontologist.

Speaker 1: 9:00

So I think that when we are helping family members make decisions about what's next, I love that question of what does quality of life look like for you, and a lot of people wish we could have a time machine. We would love to time travel back five or 10 years. Part of it is looking at what do you want the next year to look like, the next three years to look like and five years to look like, because oftentimes the reality of the current circumstances aren't necessarily going to match the dream or desire. But that's where, as family members, we can rally around people and start thinking of like. Well, if your goal is to have purpose every day, which every human being exactly what you said every human being needs purpose at every age, and so how can we help facilitate you having purpose in your life, whatever that might look like for you. Yeah, I think is a really important consideration.

Speaker 2: 10:04

I, yeah, I totally agree On your journey with this right. You've you've interviewed a ton of people on your podcast and obviously like being focused on social gerontology. What's what's like the biggest takeaway for you on your journey?

Speaker 1: 10:21

Yeah, the biggest takeaway is not to deny aging. It's okay to get older, it's okay to be talking about it and preparing for it and to be thinking about what we do want and to not give up on daily activities. Right now, like, I'm 52 and I'm watching my peer group release things that they have found enjoyable, but now they're saying I'm too old to do X, y or Z, so instead of modifying something maybe that they would need, they're just giving up on things. So we are aging. This is a beautiful thing, this is a gift, and one of the things, jay, that I talk about is I have determined that people start complaining about getting older as soon as they're told they can no longer trick or treat and the average life expectancy right now is age 77.

Speaker 1: 11:24

But we have people living well into their eighties, nineties and now hundreds. And so if, at 13, you start complaining about aging and you live to 93, that is eight decades of complaining about something that is inevitable. So what do we want our aging to look like? Like? Let's plan on it. Dropping dead is not a plan. What do we want it to look like and how can we set ourselves up for success?

Speaker 2: 11:54

Yeah, I think for me, when, like, you say, okay, well, how do you plan for it or set yourself up for success, it comes down to always being open to the possibilities, right? Or I used to use this term all the time when I was working in education I was the tech guy like trying to get people interested in things. It's like, well, I call it a whimsy. Wouldn't it be cool? Like one of the things like, wouldn't it be cool to do, like, what are the things like? Wouldn't it be cool to do now that you're 52 or, in my case, 56, or whether it's 45 or even 85? Like, still, what you have to think about, what it? What would it be like? Like, would it be cool to do X at whatever age?

Speaker 1: 12:36

Yeah, and you know, it does require a certain mindset to be open to the idea of what it would be cool to do, Because I think part of it is that we and I feel energetically this shift in our culture, that things are not how they always have been. Like a 70 year old today doesn't look, act, dress, talk, move, eat like a 70-year-old from 1940.

Speaker 2: 13:08

No, not even close.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Not even close, like there was an example of J-Lo at the halftime show performing at age 50. And then there was the meme had on Blanche from the Golden Girls, who was portraying a 50 year old in that show.

Speaker 2: 13:25

yeah, yeah, you would think they were portraying 80 year olds, right right, right.

Speaker 1: 13:30

So I think it's just it's important to get curious about things and question them like what? What should things be like at at certain ages?

Speaker 2: 13:40

yeah, oh, I totally agree. Like you, a year ago I climbed Kilimanjaro and somebody in our group, like one of the people who was on the journey, she was 74. Yes, right, and she did, she summited. And you know, mary Lee was like I was so impressed with that because it goes back to the point of like, always staying open to the possibilities. And having had conversations with her later it was like, yeah, I just say yes to things.

Speaker 1: 14:08

And what courage that does take to say yes to things.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Right, yeah, yeah and I but it goes back to having a mindset is like what does the mindset have to look like to say yes to things?

Speaker 1: 14:18

Right and I I mean, I do think that circles back to the three C's of curiosity, communication and compassion, which I think feeds that growth mindset and that openness mindset. There's an organization called the National Senior Games and it's going to be in a neighboring state next summer, but these are people that are competing at every age level over age 50 in a variety of sports. So there's 103 year olds who are breaking records, setting and breaking records for running.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I think I saw that last year, like on an Instagram post, where it was like you know, a woman or a man set like a world record in their age group and they were like 101 or something, yeah, and but how cool is that? So great Cool Is that. I'm curious in your journey, like just this past year right, you're, we'll go back to just your journey Like what's something you've learned about yourself in this past year?

Speaker 1: 15:20

That's a good question. I think something that I have learned about myself is that I am more driven than I realized. So I am 52 years old and I had the privilege of going to college and I did earn a master's degree afterwards. And then my husband and I, before we had children, had discussed my staying home and I really that was really important to me and to both of us. So I was able to stay home with our kids for 12 years as a stay at home mom and then reentered the workforce in senior living and I just I feel like I am waking up. I feel like right now, at this age, I am just getting started and I have this idea like I am in a PhD program and creating this company, building this company. I created this resource for families, and I just feel like I am really surprised at how much stamina I have and I'm just really driven and motivated to do this and I think it's this. I have this new lease on life as I'm stepping towards empty nesting.

Speaker 2: 16:44

I love that. Listen, if you guys are listening, write that down. Put that down on a piece of paper. I'm just getting started. I love that. I'm just getting started. What do you want it to look like when you're done?

Speaker 1: 16:56

Oh yeah, I you know Oprah has. She talks about seeing the seven trees in her backyard and then having her team count how many trees were in her backyard and it was, like you know, thousands of trees. I am not even sure I can visualize what this looks like when I'm done. I know already where I am at with creating. What I have so far created has been part of my legacy for my kids and for my family.

Speaker 1: 17:29

I really would love you know pie in the sky is.

Speaker 1: 17:32

I would love for all families who are on this caregiving journey to have access to the resources that they need and that inspired caring is part of the solution for them, so that they feel like they can make better decisions faster.

Speaker 1: 17:48

You know, it comes from my own family story, which is my mother-in-law lived with dementia for 12 years and my father-in-law was her caregiver, and he was.

Speaker 1: 18:03

He had been caring for his mom for 30 years because his dad had passed away unexpectedly when he was a young man, and so he he didn't really want to be a caregiver anymore. Right, they had just stepped into retirement, they were looking forward to traveling and doing different things, and then dementia was present, so he neglected his own health for a chunk of time, didn't go to the doctor, and it ultimately ended up costing him his life. And so this is not an unusual statistic, especially when we're talking about dementia that whoever that primary caregiver is, they just really focus on caring for that person instead of taking care of themselves. And so I just I think so often about, like the adult children watching both of their parents in this and struggling, and so the big picture is that we have created an environment where people can get the support and resources they need so that people can have that quality of life and have a longer health span.

Speaker 2: 19:16

Yeah, so good, and I think a lot of people are in that same spot. I know I am, my brother and I are in that same spot with my parents, like with our parents. So it is it's like you watch one person care for another and what that does to them, and how do you, as children, try to resolve that for them? Because you want to make sure that they continue to live in a way that is beneficial for both of them, not just one of them.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Absolutely and you mentioned discomfort, jay, earlier like having uncomfortable conversations and we generally try to avoid uncomfortable conversations as much as possible. We desire to keep peace in our families and, just like, try to let things play themselves out as much as possible. But when it comes to this, uncomfortable conversations will have to be had at some point and I like to share that. You've been, you've been training for these. You're trained to be uncomfortable all the time, like for those of us who live in colder states during the winter. You're trained to get out of your car and have a blast of cold air hit you and then you're zipping into the grocery store.

Speaker 1: 20:29

So to give yourself a little more credit for being able to handle uncomfortable things, I think is the first thing that's really important.

Speaker 1: 20:39

And then I think it's really important to remain as energetically neutral as possible when we're having these uncomfortable conversations, if we are pushing an agenda, if we are trying to steer them in a certain direction, versus again having that curiosity that can turn up the heat on the discomfort. And then the third big thing is when we say to our family member, when we ask them what do you envision things being like three years from now If they say something back. That's unrealistic. To actually just hold the space which is coach talk just to be quiet and be silent and be as neutral as possible and just not respond. Don't come back immediately with a question or a solution or an argument when you are asking them what do you envision this next one to three years to be like under these current circumstances? Allow that that air, allow that space for things to be uncomfortable, because instead of you being wiggly, that will invite the person that you're caring for to be a little more reflective.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, yeah, earlier, you had said you know we can have two things true at the same time, and I think that's a perfect example of a parent having a belief of what they see in one to three years and a child having a different belief in what they see in one to three years. For that same person, two things true at the same time.

Speaker 1: 22:28

A hundred percent and sometimes we really need to leverage the medical professionals. You mentioned the being Mortal book and I think it's really important to as much as possible especially if the dynamics within the family can get kind of spicy to leverage doctors. So let you know, sometimes you need to make a behind the scene phone call to a nurse if you're going in for a doctor's appointment to give them a bigger picture of what's actually happening at home, because our medical professionals have limited time with our family members and maybe they're covering for each other in that doctor's appointment, maybe they are sugarcoating the situation. So, as much as you can to elevate the actual situation to medical professionals like she actually went to the grocery store and got lost while driving that's not something that necessarily someone is going to divulge during the doctor's appointment.

Speaker 2: 23:27

Right.

Speaker 1: 23:27

So I just think that, as much as we can get those outside people in as part of the conversation, it can help keep things on track and moving in the right direction.

Speaker 2: 23:39

Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit of vulnerability in that, and sometimes we have to be vulnerable for others.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Ooh, if you are listening, write that down. Sometimes we have to be vulnerable for others. I love that, Jay.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Right, because we like the whole backdoor thing. Right Is, I think, an important point. It's not one that I didn't think of. I should have thought of it. We kind of did that with college tours for one of our kids. We kind of backdoored with the college counselor to kind of get our kid pointed in a direction we thought was good, without either of us saying, hey, this is where we think you should land. But it's no different right, helping the people who need to know see things that may not come up for others.

Speaker 1: 24:30

Right, and this is you know. What we know is, none of us are getting out of here alive, True, like that's just how it's going to work. So how can we best be set up for success during these most vulnerable, fragile years of our life, potentially? When I think about being prepared, I also think about communicating information, and that can be around accounts, like if someone is in the hospital and unable to pay their bills. How can I help you with?

Speaker 2: 25:04

that.

Speaker 1: 25:05

How can I take care of that for you? So getting a spreadsheet started with account information. There's a business aspect to our lives that, especially now, in this digital age, everything is online.

Speaker 2: 25:22

Exactly yeah. How do you gain access to it in a pinch?

Speaker 1: 25:26

Right, so starting that spreadsheet as soon as possible, I think, is a really good idea.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Yeah, yeah, and I think the most important one is access to email because you can always reset a password if you have access to the person's email, but you need to know what their username is, even if you don't know their password.

Speaker 1: 25:43

If you have access to the person's email, but you need to know what their username is, even if you don't know their password. Yeah, and everything's that dual authentication, right? So if they're going to be doing a push notification to a cell phone, what is the code to get into the cell?

Speaker 2: 25:52

phone, cell phone as well. Yeah, yeah, two, two important tips. For those listening is like yeah, access to information and where's that stored and what does it look like. And yeah, yeah, great tips, I love it, I love it. We were talking a little bit earlier, um, about um, like this is just pure empty nesting. We're moving into now, like um, how homes become storage units for our children and how, how do we move it also becomes stored like our parents homes are storage units for our children and how do we move. It also becomes storage like our parents' homes are storage units for their stuff too, and how we deal with that. Like we're like stuck between our own homes being storage units and our parents having a bunch of stuff and we're like how do we get rid of all these things?

Speaker 1: 26:36

Yes, you know, for our aging parents, their stuff is often such a huge burden and when we cleaned out my in-laws house, I was so I felt so clever that I pulled a lot of their kitchen items out because I knew that our girls in a couple of years would be going to college.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Well, that has subsequently happened and so we have had to outfit an apartment and a condo and the condo is just new this year. But this apartment situation and the dorm room situation I texted you and I'm like why is nobody talking about this that at the end of the school year, all of this stuff that we took to the kids dorm rooms is going to boomerang and end up back in our basement front room and garage. And, quite frankly, I'm really nervous about the end of this summer because one of our, or the end of the school year because one of our daughters has a whole apartment Full of stuff that we have to probably get a storage unit for until she figures out where she's going. But it was just so disruptive. It felt so disruptive to the household shwee and juju and energy and just dynamic to have this stuff back in the house boxed and piled in various spaces.

Speaker 2: 28:01

I get it. We have. We moved, we cleaned out a lot of things. We moved and we still have a ton of stuff in our basement that are things that we're not using, but also things that the kids left behind. And you know having those conversations to be like do you still want this? It's always like, yeah, hold on to it a little longer, like I've lived here for three years now. How much longer do you want me to hold on to it?

Speaker 1: 28:26

Yeah, I don't need your high school yearbook, so you might not neither, but they can't stay here anymore.

Speaker 2: 28:32

Yeah, yeah, how would like what? How have you broached that conversation? Or you know you talked about the storage unit, or is that something you're curious about?

Speaker 1: 28:49

It's like, like, how could we broach that conversation with our kids? Well, also our parents too yeah, the parents. I have a lot more time in that space and there's basically a handful of ways with parents that the stuff is going to get managed. So either we're walking through the house together and maybe we're labeling things that we know certain people would want in the family, or we are. One of the things my father-in-law did was he would just bring stuff to my house all the time, and I know a lot of people who are in this boat like your parents come over and they're bringing some random video camera or a pie plate and our response was to say yes, thank you, and and keep it, hold on to it, like either the stuff is being managed with them when they're alive or after. The advantage of it being when they're here with us, the parents, is that we can hear the stories. Being when they're here with us, the parents is that we can hear the stories. We can, you know, know some of the history. If those things are important to us and our family, I will tell you.

Speaker 1: 29:52

I inherited three houses with lifetimes of belongings in each house, and once someone has passed away, it's a lot easier to manage the stuff and to deal with it because you're able to either host an estate sale, you can do a lot of donating, you can have a dumpster brought to the house. We had different generations of people come through the house and just take what they wanted. We had a couple that was getting married house and just take what they wanted. We had a couple that was getting married, so she and her bride came through and they literally just took a ton of stuff that they were going to use for their new home. So there's multiple ways to deal with it. When we're talking about our parents and having the conversation of again, you know what's most important to you. What do you want it to look like? So how do you want this process to go, always including people With our kids? Man, this is green pasture. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 30:53

It's an open time. No one's talking about the storage. The house is a storage unit for the kids' stuff when they no longer live at home.

Speaker 1: 31:01

I mean, I know from my experience. When I was about 26 years old, my dad and stepmom moved out of the house that I grew up in and they said we are not taking your stuff, End of story. So come, either we're shipping you boxes or come and get it. And so I now have like five boxes worth of stuff in my basement that I have been hauling around with who knows what in it I don't know.

Speaker 2: 31:26

So you've been storing your own stuff from your childhood.

Speaker 1: 31:30

It's not pretty, Jay.

Speaker 2: 31:33

I think that's a common. I think it's a common topic for folks and it's like, well, how do you solve it, folks? And it's like, well, how do you solve it? And I think you just decide that, like if you haven't seen it, or if it doesn't bring you joy, or if there's not a whole lot of history to it, it needs to go yes it's great advice.

Speaker 2: 31:50

I haven't done that myself. I'm just throwing that advice out there for people who are listening. I need to do it myself because I told my wife when we live this leave the house that we're in now like we're just getting rid of a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Yes, I am watching a friend right now. She and her husband. They literally are selling all of their belongings and moving to. They have a small cabin by a lake and it's already furnished, so they've taken over what can fit and they're selling all of their stuff, and it's been quite a project, I will tell you for me. I started listening to I don't know if we're allowed to talk about other creators, but the minimalists and a lot of the philosophy that they have shared just really resonated with me on how they manage things, and so we've we've done a pretty good job. Part of it is stopping the inflow of things, so we we try to do that too. But yeah, I just I don't know. I was just so surprised. It felt like when you send your kids off to college, like they do come back for summer holidays.

Speaker 2: 33:00

They do. They do for a while summer holidays.

Speaker 1: 33:02

They do, they do and sometimes they live for a while afterwards too, yeah. Two things can be true, right, it's an incredible blessing because this time is fleeting and limited with our kids during this phase and you get into your routines and it feels a little disruptive to have them and stuff back.

Speaker 2: 33:19

Yes, but the same is true with our parents. This time is fleeting, and it's limited. Oh yes that's right, and what do we want to do with that time?

Speaker 1: 33:28

Yeah, what do we want it to look like? How do we want to be engaging in our time together? And that's another good point is, if they're feeling overwhelmed by their stuff, you don't necessarily have to take that on as the big project. If they're just talking, maybe they're just talking about it and expressing frustration or concern. They're not necessarily looking for you to solve a problem.

Speaker 2: 33:52

Right, yeah, this is one of the things and people who listen to this show a lot will hear me say it because it's like you want to be heard, do you want to be helped or you want to be hugged. It's like one of my favorite things to like offer to people is when they're in a conversation, because it like puts the right hat on, because, as humans, we want to solve problems. So the initial thing is to like just throw out solutions, but people may not want that. They maybe just want to be heard as opposed to helped.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Yeah, yeah, and you know this phase of an adult's life and when you're in this 60 plus year old phase, this is when we're searching for legacy, this is when we're curious if our life, where our life, had meaning. And so maybe when they're bringing up their stuff in the conversation, maybe what it's opening a door for having a conversation about how they served in the military and how you were a military family and you know having a conversation about what that experience was like for them as parents and feeling proud of your family having been in service to our country. So I guess it's like peeling back the curtain, like whatever's coming up with your family member, what could be the other, that next layer, deep, of what the meaning is behind what we're talking about, like, what are we really talking about here?

Speaker 2: 35:18

It goes back to the piece about being curious. Yes, right, and I think to throw another word in front of that, being intentionally curious in those conversations with your parents about what they want next retirement that they envision for themselves.

Speaker 1: 35:43

I work with a lot of women who are caring for their husbands who've been living with dementia and this was not what they wanted. This was not what they signed up for. I mean, you sign up to care and love and be with each other till death, do you part and you still have visions of what retirement might look like, and it's really hard when that plan changes through a diagnosis.

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yes, yeah, it just changes what your thoughts are. You know, even my own mom said to me she's like oh, I didn't think this is what life would be like at this stage. But also, and like look at what you got to do up until this point. Right, look at all the things that you got to accomplish, the life that you did lead, all the things that you got to do. And now it's different. But it doesn't mean it has to be good or bad, right, that's just a thought that you place on it, like that was good and this is bad, as opposed to like no this is just life.

Speaker 1: 36:46

Right, and I mean, I think that in my age bracket, my peer group, we are trying to figure that out as well as our kids leave the nest. We're trying to figure out what do we want life to look like for ourselves? What does this next chapter for us, this next decade to two decades, look like Knowing that things might shift, but, um, we now have a lot more time on our hands.

Speaker 2: 37:07

Yeah, yeah, as you're figuring it out, what? What's your emptiness motto? Do you think?

Speaker 1: 37:13

Oh, I have not actually thought about that, so that will be something I will journal on. Thank you, what's dropping in for me right now on?

Speaker 2: 37:31

what's my empty nest motto? Right now, it feels like anything is possible.

Speaker 1: 37:33

Yeah, we, I feel so abundant with time and I feel healthy, and I just know that in 10, 15, 20 years things are going to change because our family is going to look different. We have three kids. They may have partners and children, so right now it just feels like this very sweet space where anything is possible.

Speaker 2: 37:58

I love that. Be a great title for another podcast. Anything is possible, so love that. Be a great title for another podcast. Anything is possible. So good, so good. Michelle, thank you so much for being here. We covered a lot today for my guests, what for my audience. You know, through you and the work that you do, if people want to find out more about Inspired Caring, how do they do that?

Speaker 1: 38:20

I am on Instagram and then I have a podcast, and those are both at Inspired Caring, and then my website is michellemagnercom. There's only one L in Michelle, michellemagnercom. And yeah, I'm out there, I'm around and would love to connect.

Speaker 2: 38:44

Awesome. Thank you so much. It was a great conversation. Glad that we could reconnect here in this space.

Speaker 1: 38:50

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I know that I have texted you several times with different frustrations as my emptiness journey continues, so I'm grateful to have you as a wise and thoughtful resource. So thank you, jay.

Speaker 2: 39:07

My absolute pleasure, and we will get back to the stuck in houses. That could be another episode. So hang tight, folks, how we're stuck in our houses as empty nesters. Stay tuned for that one at another time. Yeah, alrighty, thank you. Okay, thank you another time. That's great. Yeah, alrighty.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Thank you. Okay, thank you so much. We'll talk again soon.

Speaker 3: 39:28

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years? If so, head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact. One Media LLC. All rights reserved.