Speaker 1: 0:00

The problem in this approach, in this kind of outdated rules, reward, punishment approach that we all grew up with, is that we miss the secret sauce of what's happening inside of them and really understanding that, and that that's what's causing, maybe, the poor choices of not sleeping or not making healthy food choices. Whatever the case may be the circumstances.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life. Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting. If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the Empty Nest Coach, Jay Ramston.

Speaker 3: 0:47

Janine Mouchoir, Queen of Parenting Teens. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 0:52

Thanks for having me. Jay Love the title, I'll accept that.

Speaker 3: 0:56

Yeah, 100%. Well, you know that's your job as coaching parents of teens, and so I think it's, I think it fits the queen of parenting teens. But tell me a little bit more about about what you do and how you help people.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Yeah, yeah, thanks and thanks for having me on. Yeah, I coach moms and dads who have preteens, teenagers, young adults, and just help them figure out what to say and to do to help their child. And you know, most people tell me I want to be my child's go-to person and they're not opening up and sharing with me and I want to help them and they just feel like you know, they're batting their head against the wall and they're not able to break through and they're starting to feel that disconnection against the wall and they're not able to break through and they're starting to feel that disconnection. And so, yeah, I just help parents just know what to say and do to reconnect with their kid and help them be the best version of themselves.

Speaker 3: 1:55

I love that and does that you think? When you coach people on those things, is that something that carries over into, like when the kids leave and become adults? Can you use the same skill set or does it change, do you think?

Speaker 1: 2:08

Yeah, it's actually the same skill set. In fact, I have many clients who say I try these skills with my spouse and it works really well. I have another client who is like a big time pediatrician and heads up a huge group and he was saying, yeah, I try this at work and it's so great and I'm forming such strong connections with my employees. So I mean, what I teach and my whole philosophy is just basic communication skills. Well, I shouldn't say basic, because they're not communication skills we were ever taught. But what I find is really it applies to a wide range of people. And yeah, I think you know, when it's the preteen time it's a little more hands-on approach for parenting and then a little less with teenagers and obviously a whole heck of a lot less when they go to college. But I have clients with kids who are in middle school, all the way college and actually beyond.

Speaker 3: 3:18

Yeah, so I think for my audience right, the people who are listening mostly empty nesters, so they're going to be like, well, this doesn't apply, but that thing about communicating with your spouse, that tell me more about that, Like what? Give me an example.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Yeah, yeah, well, so basically, I have a philosophy where we move forward in terms of communication with three principles. One is, you know, we want to get the person talking, we want to show that we understand, and then we want to help them help themselves. And so, although I teach it in the context of parenting, those three things basically apply to your spouse. And so far as, like, let's say that you, um, you're the primary parent and your child's grades are plummeting or they're missing a few assignments, and so your spouse comes home and the kids have gone to bed and you're sitting and talking and you're sharing like I'm, I'm really frustrated. They've got all these missing assignments and I'm worried they're not going to be able to catch up. And whenever I talk to them, they just argue with me and you know, and it's angry.

Speaker 1: 4:32

You could have your spouse go one and in one of two directions, right? You can have a spouse who's like, oh well, you should just take away their phone and you should ground them and don't let them go to the party, and like, why haven't you, you know, told him that and put the gauntlet down? Right, you can have a spouse who takes that direction and I see you nodding along, like I think if you check in with yourself and you ask yourself, how does that feel to have that kind of response? Probably not the response that's super helpful, true? Or you can have a different spouse who really is trying to, like I said, get you talking, show that they understand and ask questions where you can help yourself, right. So that might sound more like wow, yeah, that's really scary and pretty worrisome that they've got all these missing assignments.

Speaker 1: 5:32

And you know, yeah, of course you're concerned, and you know I am too, and what are your thoughts on? You know what we should do about it? That's an approach of having compassion for our spouse and showing curiosity about what are they thinking, versus. The first version was like you should do this, you need to do this, here's my advice, right, all of those things, and so, in that regard, you could see how the same approach really can work with your spouse as it does with your child.

Speaker 3: 6:10

Yeah, absolutely what I hear. What I think I hear you saying is that you know, if you approach it with looking at like the person who your spouse or your partner just wants to be seen, heard and valued in that communication process, yeah, Exactly.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, it's just another way of saying that, right I? Tend to lead with show compassion and curiosity, Like that's the secret sauce. But I love the way you said it as well.

Speaker 3: 6:37

Yeah, what I try and get my clients to when I'm working with folks is like the game changer is just ask somebody when they're coming to. It's works with most people that you love or care for is um, let me get my hat on Right Do um, you know. Do you just want to be heard? Do you want to be helped or do you want to be hugged?

Speaker 1: 6:57

I love that.

Speaker 3: 6:58

And right, so it goes. I'm okay. You want me to help you? Okay, then I know I'm going to give you strategies, but if you just want to be heard, I'm not going to say anything like it makes it easy. So I love that, like that. So I think the takeaway for my folks is like yeah, okay, we're talking to somebody who helps parent parents, parent teens, but in this regard, with communicating with your spouse or your partner which often ends up being a struggle for people when they end up empty nesting because they weren't connected I think that's just such a strong strategy.

Speaker 1: 7:31

Yeah, great, I love the way you said it too.

Speaker 3: 7:34

Yeah, awesome. I'm curious, you're an empty nester too. Right, so you help people parent their teens, but you're an empty nester. What's that like? Like, how do you take what you teach into that life?

Speaker 1: 7:47

Oh well, I love that question. So I learned the philosophy and principle and strategies that I teach. I learned when my kids were 14, 17, and 19. So it was primarily for my 17-year-old at the time and my kids are now all in their twenties. So, you know, what I have found is that all the principles and strategies I started using about eight years ago it still all applies now that they're young adults.

Speaker 1: 8:21

And so, you know, I just find that I'm still really coming back to the core foundational principles that I teach my clients. I'm finding I still have to practice every day. And, you know, although I may be eight years ahead of somebody starting this new approach, you know today it still is something where you know I have to work at it and I have to remind myself of what I need to be doing. And oftentimes, you know, I love having the tool in my back pocket of a mulligan or a do-over and just to know that, yeah, you know I'm not going to always show up the way I want to either, and when that happens, I can always go back and try again and try an approach that I know is more effective in terms of connecting with my child, who's now a young adult and just helping them be their best version.

Speaker 3: 9:31

I love that. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1: 9:34

And then, of course, like I said, I try to also use the same principles now that it's just my husband and myself. So yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:43

So what? What comes to mind for me is like, in a moment of, like people see us, they hear coaches, whatever, whatever their interactions are with coaches, like, oh, I just I wish I could just like, approach life, like you approach life, and they think we're different, right, In some aspect, but we're we're not. We're humans and we struggle with the exact same things. They struggle with. And I think you used um the phrase like, well, I have this in my toolbox, right, the mulligan or the do-over. We just have different tools in our toolboxes. So how would, how would you approach somebody who's like, yeah, what does this even mean? Like, how do I go about communicating better with the people in my life? What would you tell them?

Speaker 1: 10:30

Yeah Well, I think you know, whenever I'm talking to somebody, I really believe that we as humans intellectual, smart people we first want to understand why what we're doing isn't working. Because if we don't have an understanding why our approach isn't working, it's really hard to motivate to try a different approach. And you know, as we know, as adults, it's hard to create new habits and communicate in new ways. And so what I'd love to just share is what I see people and parents getting, where they're getting stuck with their kids and why they aren't. Their kids go to person or they don't have that connection they want. And that's what I find is really because most of us are using an outdated parenting approach that's focused on fixing or stopping behavior that we either are worried about or frustrated with or we're disappointed in, right. So, when it comes to teenagers, maybe they've got those three missing assignments, or their grades are plummeting, or they're smoking, or they're being disrespectful, or they're not taking responsibility and doing their chores, or they can't get off their devices. I mean, whatever the case may be, if you think about that interaction and that conversation you're having, most people are talking to them and trying to get them to stop what they're doing or change it or fix it. And that doesn't work for three reasons. One is it shuts the conversation down. One is it shuts the conversation down.

Speaker 1: 12:23

So when most of us approach our children, we start telling them oh, you need to do, you know, you need to study more, or you should get off your device sooner and do your homework first. You know, we give our advice, our life lessons, we tell them why they're wrong, and these approaches end up shutting down the conversation. Why? Because our kids, when we approach this way and they're teenagers now, they're trying to exert their independence when they sense that we're disappointed or that we're worried or that we're angry, right, they feel ashamed and they feel like they're letting you down and that feels so awful inside of them that they push you away.

Speaker 1: 13:16

Right. And that's when they'll say get out of my room. Or you're trying to talk to them and it turns into an argument. Or if you have a more agreeable child, they like might pay lip service and tell you what you want to hear, but nothing changes. So that's the first reason that when we want to motivate them to make better choices, when we focus the conversation on stopping or fixing or changing what they're doing it doesn't work. What are your thoughts about that? And then I'll share the second and third reason.

Speaker 3: 13:48

Yeah. So my thoughts that just turn to. I don't think that power dynamic changes, right, even when they become, because a lot of folks that I work with are older. You know they're in their 50s, 60s, even 70s, and their kids are older, you know, 30s late, 20s early that power dynamic doesn't change. So going back to like how we communicate with somebody, like the idea of having a conversation, is literally having a conversation. It's not trying to say you're right or wrong or leaving the door open for, like, here's all my advice. Do with it what you may, which you know most people don't want your advice, right, whether you're a parent or a kid, whatever it may be, they don't. I mean they don't, yeah Right, and we just offer it freely. So that's what comes to mind. I'm like trying to apply it like to parents who may struggle with having I won't say parenting having a relationship with their adult kids.

Speaker 3: 14:41

Right this is key, this is key.

Speaker 1: 14:44

Yeah, and I mean, when you think about it, it makes sense, right? Because when our kids were young and little, they were just one, they were really agreeable and two. We just like automatically had that connection and what they needed from us was our advice and was our wisdom and was telling them what they should do or they need to do. You know, you need to hold my hand when you cross the street. This is how you tie your shoes right. It was like that was our role. You know, you need to hold my hand when you cross the street. This is how you tie your shoes Right. It was like that was our role, and usually we were rewarded with love and affection and you know them grabbing our cheeks like I love you, mommy.

Speaker 1: 15:20

You know, when we get all this positive feedback, we naturally get these like dopamine hits and so we start learning patterns of. This is how to communicate with our kids, and I think what we miss is that when they hit the teen years, they're going through this huge transition. We know that intellectually, but what we miss is that, as they're going through a transition and again this can apply to your listeners with transitioning from home life to college or college and after college? Right, we miss that. Their needs become different, and so we need to have conversations that are addressing what they need from us, and that requires us to build new communication habits and approaches.

Speaker 3: 16:14

Yeah, yeah. So, as I was a former educator and so when we were trying to get teachers to kind of move through, like well, teaching is changing, and it used to be like, well, we were the sage on the stage, that's how it was when we were parenting our little kids, right, as parents, we're the sage on the stage, like we're in. That's it. You're looking at us for examples and things you know, right and wrong versus right or wrong, and then you move to kind of like the mentor in the center, right when it's like you release a little bit of that control and then, when they get to be like that 18 to 25, 20, wherever it may be like, you move to becoming like the guide on the side, when I think guide, guide means questions instead of advice. Yeah, does that resonate it?

Speaker 1: 16:58

totally resonates. I love your rhyming, the guide on the side all those are catchy and really stick. The analogy or metaphor I use is that when they're young, you're like the mid-level manager, with your very hands on. You know you're telling them what to do because they don't know, but that once they hit the teen years and beyond, you've been promoted to CEO and now it's time to be a leader and to guide and to influence and to motivate and to teach instead of trying to control them.

Speaker 3: 17:38

I like that. I like that a lot. So what's number two?

Speaker 1: 17:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Number two is that they end up feeling like you don't understand what's going on with them, right, and so that happens, because your conversation is focused on their behavior.

Speaker 1: 17:53

So the grades plummeting, the smoking, the, you know, getting in with a bad group of friends, the can't get off video games or Instagram or TikTok, right, and so the conversation is about that, and what they're feeling in this conversation is that we don't understand what they're going through and what they're experiencing, because you know, we know from cognitive behavioral therapy that there is a thought and a feeling. That's what's going on inside of us that causes the behavior or the action that you see them doing. And so really, the problem in this approach, in this kind of outdated rules, reward, punishment approach that we all grew up with, is that we miss the secret sauce of what's happening inside of them and really understanding that and that that's what's causing, maybe, the poor choices of not sleeping or not making healthy food choices, whatever the case may be the circumstances. And so that is where I see the second reason that this approach doesn't work is our kids feel like you know, I think, like the common thing you probably remember hearing was like you know, you don't understand, you don't get it.

Speaker 1: 19:18

The phrases like that that most of us hear quite frequently with our teenagers.

Speaker 3: 19:25

Yeah, oh, and even probably sometimes, like I hear that with 20 year olds, right, they get into a certain situation and they're like well, times are different now and you don't get it. But I think the point around is like people just don't have behaviors. They come from someplace, right, yeah, to realize, like, okay, if you can examine, just press pause in your life, whether it's you with your teens or with your adult kids or your spouse, and just say, okay, I'm having a thought and feeling in reaction to whatever they said or did, is that the best thing for me to be doing right now? Like, or do I want to do something different?

Speaker 1: 20:04

How do.

Speaker 3: 20:04

I want to approach it differently. And it becomes a skill to actually press the big old pause button, to actually go through that.

Speaker 1: 20:11

Yeah, and so important to just to kind of slow ourselves down. It's hard to do when we're, you know, worried or freaked out at what our teenagers doing, but so important to slow ourselves down, yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:23

Yeah, okay, number three.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Yeah, yeah. So the third thing is like so one we've now like shut the conversation down. They feel like we don't get them and understand what they're going through, and so when that happens, right, we actually don't stop the behavior or fix the behavior, and their argument ensues, they tend to dig their heels in, and so we then get more disappointed, more angry, more worried, more frustrated, and, if you're like me, when that happens, the natural go-to response is to tighten the reins and to try to control them more and the bummer, but the reality is we don't really have control over them, right?

Speaker 1: 21:09

If they want to go smoke, you know we can't keep eyes on them 24, seven every day they're going to do that, like. We can't actually make them study, we can't actually choose their friends for them, right? And so I find that in step three, what happens, or the third reason that it doesn't work, is either we tighten the reins even more or we just get so exhausted from going round and round having the same conversation that we just give up.

Speaker 3: 21:38

Yeah, yeah, I remember this happening with my son. Right, he was he. He's a mini me like he. I could see him living his life and going through school. The same approach, like when memorizing things in school, was the way we went. Like elementary school, you memorize a lot, sixth grade and then seventh, eighth, you start to actually have to take what you memorized and like process it and do things with it. And and then in high school, even more right, you got to actually go deeper and both of us great memorizers and I saw him going down that same path.

Speaker 3: 22:11

So when he got to be like freshman and sophomore year of high school, I started pushing exactly what you're talking about, like the control started to get deeper and deeper because I wanted something different for him. That wasn't great at articulating that. I wanted him to like be different from me, be different from me. But then it was somewhere along sophomore year. I realized if I keep pushing like this right instead of removing myself and allowing him to figure it out, this relationship is going to be different in two years when he graduates from high school and goes to college. I just I freed up the reins and he figured it out. I think that's what happens, right? Is that? Sometimes in parenting, when we push too hard, we push them away, but if we remove ourselves a little bit and just observe and maybe bumper them, they end up actually figuring out for themselves. Because yeah, that's part of the growth.

Speaker 1: 23:00

Yeah, and honestly, like I'm so glad you shared that, you know I had a similar experience I think what's so challenging about letting go of the reins is it's scary.

Speaker 3: 23:11

Yes.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Right, the uncertainty, the unknown of you know, releasing the control feels like oh gosh, but then you know then what might happen and it's terrifying.

Speaker 3: 23:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:24

But you know, what I know to be true is really the most direct path to calming those worries and fears is to open up the lines of communication and find out what's going on inside of them. And it's really that information is what is settling for us. We think it's going to be God. Just do the right thing, do what I'm telling you to do, and I'll feel so much better. But it really is not. It's our mind tricking us and really the answer is, you know, really getting them to open up and share what's going on inside of them so you can, like we were talking about earlier, you know, be more of a guide and a teacher and gently influencing.

Speaker 3: 24:16

Yeah, yeah, I think this is what comes to mind. For me, it's like when we try to exert more control to get a desired result from our kids or the people in our lives, we'll just say it's about making ourselves feel better, right and taking care of what we need, as opposed to actually opening up the conversation to figure out what is it this is happening, what do you need?

Speaker 1: 24:38

Yeah, yeah, when you think about it, jay, like we were never taught skills like that you know in school, or you know at least I wasn't, and you know it least I wasn't and you know it is a big shift. But when you make that shift it really feels so good and you end up just really enjoying your relationships more.

Speaker 3: 25:01

Yeah, I think what kicked it off for me with that 10th grade episode with my son is I went back to something he said to me when he was five. Right, I was reprimanding him for something and he said dad, daddy, when the volume in your voice goes up, the volume in my ears goes down, right Out of the mouth of babes. And I was like that's what kicked in. Yeah, that's what kicked in. I'm thinking about like oh, he's so right.

Speaker 3: 25:28

Like if I keep pushing he's going to not hear me. Even more and more and more.

Speaker 1: 25:31

Yeah, oh gosh. She reminded me. I remember my daughter was like in her car seat, in the in the back of you know the car. We were driving somewhere and all of a sudden she says Mommy yelling, daddy yelling, julia yelling, I've stopped, I've started our talks like oh my gosh, what is going on? And right, it's just. That has always stuck with me and I have to say I really made an intentional effort to try not to yell after that and really kind of check myself.

Speaker 3: 26:06

So good, so good. What's on your journey? What's? What's something you've recently learned about yourself?

Speaker 1: 26:13

Ooh, oh, I like that question. I think I've learned that I have this inner desire to always be growing and learning and just bringing meaning into my life. I think there were so many years I was a stay-at-home mom and there were just so many years where my life was being a mom and, you know, supporting my kids and having a beautiful home with nutritious food and making sure everybody's where they need to be, and all of that that I think I well not. I think I lost some of myself in the process, and so one thing I found to be true is and actually thanks to a little nudge from my husband when my youngest got his driver's license, as any of you know out there, once that happens like they really spend a lot less time with you.

Speaker 1: 27:20

When that happened, my husband was like you know, Janine, what do you see yourself doing in the next chapter of your life? Because he knew I wasn't somebody who does well, just sitting idly by without purpose or meaning, and you know, I remember thinking I don't know why are you asking me that? That's? That was like a lot of pressure, but I ended up just kind of falling into coaching because I think, as I mentioned, my middle son was really struggling in high school and I, you know, my parenting strategies were not working. And so, know, when I finally came to a point where I said, thought I've got to go find new information and try different strategies, and so when I did that and it just was so dramatically life changing, I was kind of like you know what? I think this is what I want to do for the next chapter is help parents that are going through exactly what I went through and help, you know, share these strategies with them so hopefully their life can be a little easier and smoother than the high school years were for me in my parenting. And so that's when I went and got a life coach certification and started this business.

Speaker 1: 28:42

But, as I'm sure you know as well, Jay, there's really two, two paths on this business. One is being the coach, which we all love, and we love helping right Our clients and serving them.

Speaker 1: 28:57

And then the other is more the entrepreneur side and for that I think that is also like more recently, where I've learned so much about myself that I can do hard things. And you know, it might be scary to get up and speak in front of 120 parents, but you know, I can be brave and I can be courageous and I can focus on serving them and that's like what will motivate me to lean in and to do it and to show up and, you know, really try to get into that energy of serving others, because I do really want to help other parents have an easier time of it.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Yeah, it's kind of a long-winded answer to your question.

Speaker 3: 29:44

I've never been asked that it's perfect. I love it because a lot of empty nesters like their identity gets wrapped up in being Billy or Susie's mom or dad, right, and then the kids go off and they're stuck with this identity that doesn't fit. It's like an old pair of clothes, a pair of jeans. It just doesn't fit right anymore and you're not sure what to do about it. And that's the thing I hear the most is that people feel like I don't. I'm not sure what my passion or my purpose is.

Speaker 3: 30:14

Now that the kids are gone, I feel a little rudderless, is what I hear from people. And so it's such a great example of like reminding people you are stronger and braver than you know. But you know, being strong and brave means you have to take a step, and I'm a big believer in every step has purpose. So most people are like well, I got to go from this to something completely different. No, figure out what fits best for you like that pair. No, figure out what fits best for you Like that pair of jeans, just what fits best for you. So it was helpful to share that story that hopefully somebody hears it and goes oh no, I can, here's what I can bring to the table now that I'm not parenting 24-7 anymore.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Yeah, oh yeah, I love that and I'm sure you coach people on this all the time. I mean, I know some of my clients who've been with me a little longer and I'm you know, they're still with me now that their kids have launched they have that same question like what, what now? You know what's meaningful to me now and what purpose do I have now? And I think you know, coming back to just those, coming back to your values, and like what makes you light up and you know what feels meaningful to you, and to kind of try to quiet your mind. I think I had to do this Just the traditional job roles, right, and to kind of quiet my mind about, well, I don't want to do, you know, all these traditional jobs that came to mind and I couldn't go back to my career, pre-kids. So then it was like how do I connect with my values and what's meaningful to me, and to kind of pivot from there.

Speaker 3: 31:59

Yeah, yeah, the values.

Speaker 1: 32:02

Like do you bring people back to their values?

Speaker 3: 32:06

What's core to you, I think is a big piece for people to kind of reconnect with. Sometimes people will say, you know? People say, oh, what did you used to love to do before you had kids? And lots of people had kids right out of college. They're like well, I left college, got married, had kids. So there was no this timeframe here and so it's.

Speaker 3: 32:25

Yeah, it's getting reconnected to the values of that. But also the other thing I find fascinating is like you learn a ton of skills as a parent. You know those parents who are like super organizers, like they're the ones who organize everything, and other people are really good at like nutrition and lunches, and other people like as parents we're not created everything right. As humans we're not created everything. But find the thing that you were really good at as a parent and figure out is there a purpose there for you now? But yeah, I love that. And but those things tie back to the values of what you believe in too. Yeah, that resonates. That resonates so much If you, if you had I don't know if you have one, but if you had to think about it what's your emptiness life motto now that the kids are grown and flown?

Speaker 1: 33:10

Yeah, I don't have one, I've never thought about that, but I think, in general, something that I try to remind myself of every day is to have fun. Right, like, why are we living this life if it's not to have fun? And to realize that, for me, fun is connecting to you. Know what's meaningful to me and purposeful to me? And, um, just to kind of, I think the other thing I think about um, a lot is just trying to stay curious, curious about life curious about my clients curious about my kids.

Speaker 1: 33:56

Um, I just find that that really helps me stay connected to those, the ones that I love, and to my clients.

Speaker 3: 34:06

Yeah, I love that. People, we're not taught how to be curious. We're not taught how to communicate either, but we're not taught how to be curious, and I think those two things are so important to learn if you haven't done so, so I love that you brought that up. Being curious yeah, yeah, janine. Where can people find you online if they want to learn more about what you do?

Speaker 1: 34:28

Oh yeah, Thanks, Jay. You can go to my website, which is JanineMouchoircom. All the links are there. Or you can find me on Instagram at Janinetheparentingcoach. I'm also on Facebook. I have a Facebook group. I love to do Facebook lives and called oh why am I forgetting the name for a minute? How to not lose your shit? I think it's something like that, Because, as parents, we do. But yeah, you can find me there and yeah, I'm also on LinkedIn I love it, love it.

Speaker 3: 35:04

Thank you so much for being here, janine.

Speaker 1: 35:06

Thank you for having me. I loved our conversation and I love being connected with you, Jay.

Speaker 3: 35:12

Yeah, I love being connected to you too. We'll see you around the internet, as they say.

Speaker 1: 35:17

Okay, sounds good. Take care All right.

Speaker 2: 35:19

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years? If so, head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact. One Media LLC. All rights reserved.