SPEAKER_01: 0:00

So you can imagine like excitement. So the person who seeks excitement and the person who seeks safety are gonna like conflict. You know, and they don't get it. Like they're like, wait, I don't understand. Like I would the person who seeks excitement is gonna be like, I want to go on a roller coaster because it makes me feel like I'm getting thrown around, I'm gonna die. And the person who wants safety is like, wait, why would you ever want to feel that way? That's wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 0:18

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life, the podcast dedicated to helping you embrace this transformative season with purpose, passion, and joy. In each episode, we explore stories, strategies, and insights to help turn your empty nest into an exciting new chapter. Whether you're redefining your identity, pursuing new passions, or finding peace in the pause, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the empty nest coach, Jay Ramsden.

SPEAKER_02: 0:40

Hey there, my emptiness friends. One of the most powerful things we can do in our emptiness lives is to understand ourselves more deeply and live in an alignment with our true nature as an example for our kids, so they can say, you know what, hey, mom and dad are human just like me. In studio today is Eric G, the author of The Power of Personality and the Utopia Project. Eric is a dynamic educator, a master personality typing expert who has spent over two decades typing over 50,000 people using his innovative method that goes beyond some of the common personality system types you may know about, like Myers Briggs or the Enneagram. In this conversation, we'll explore how personality typing can improve our relationships, careers, and self-awareness, and why it's important to embrace our authentic selves, and it's the key to the success and fulfillment that we're going to get into right now. Eric, welcome to this emptiness life. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here and ready to go and get that key going. I was a psych major in college, so you know, know all about Myers Briggs, probably took it more times than I care to run off here and you know have experimented with things like that, Enneagram and others. But your yours is different. Tell the folks like how, how it's different, but also maybe we can back up a little bit, like, how did you even get into this in the first place?

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

It's 16 types on mine as well. So people are like, oh, wait, that's Myers Briggs. Come on, that's MBTI. But I will say the way you get there is very, very different. And I would say the biggest difference is I focus more on values and not just exactly what we do, but the reasons why we do it, because I think sometimes the personality test can be like, oh, what is this person like to do? It's like, well, yeah, but everybody can be a writer, right? Everybody can do everything. Everybody can be a parent and everybody can like parenting, but it's the way we do it and the reason why we do it. Like, why do we get pleasure from it? Why, how do we derive pleasure from it that makes us who we are?

SPEAKER_02: 2:37

Okay, so some people may be listening, they're like, Oh, I've done strength finders at work. Like, I know that that is, and some people may have done like character or via character strengths, right? That's a different nun. But yours, I what I love about it is like you use animals, right? Is like to say you're this type. And I love that because I'm big into kind of like, oh, what's your spirit animal? So let's get into a little bit about like what are the types and how you develop those so people can have a better understanding of what it looks like.

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

Yeah. It was when I owned an education company, I owned that for about a decade, and I was able to use it. We've got about a thousand students a year. So I would help my teachers or teach my teachers how to use it properly, not only for their students, but for themselves, right? Okay. What grade level was that? So people this was oh, sorry, this is K through 12. Okay. I myself have also used it with my life coaching practice with obviously way older. Generally, I get a lot of students or I would say clients, let's say that, that are in their early 40s. I think it's when people have thought that they were something different or maybe never thought about this kind of thing. And then they realize they're like 41, 42, and like, God, my life sucks, or I don't like what I'm doing. I'm stuck. This stinks. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, wait, I don't I don't even like the people are who are around me. Why did I get a family again? Like, why did I do this? Uh so yeah, I think I have a lot, or maybe like just empty nesters who start to realize maybe they were told that they should be this kind of person when they become a parent. I just want sorry, I'm going on, but I just talked to a friend of mine who recently became a parent about two years ago, and she's starting to realize, oh, I don't have to be the parent that you read books on or people say you should be like, or that people guilt you, like the PTA moms guilt you into being like, I can be a parent like myself. So that matches my personality, and I think that's a key too.

SPEAKER_02: 4:23

That's so good. Yeah, like myself. So, how does how does the work that you do actually kind of expose that for people to say, oh no, you know, you may have thought you were this way, but here are the things that this test shows you that maybe are a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01: 4:37

Yeah, I guess the number one thing would be originally I split people up into four separate packs, and I call them packs, of course, because you had mentioned before I use animal types. And within within each of those four packs are four animal personality types. So four times four makes 16. Um, but the big thing is that one of the packs makes up about half the population. So um that value of safety, security, um, having things structured and organized kind of gets proliferated throughout education, right? Like when we go to school, all most elementary school teachers belong to this pack, and I think that's great. Like it establishes like a very safe environment for kids to learn. But it's also important to note that not every kid is going to be like that. We're not all like that. Half the population are different. And yet when that like the that value system gets pushed on us, we often believe that we have to be like that or we should be like that.

SPEAKER_02: 5:27

Oh, yeah, we should be like or be like our parents, right? That's that's our perfect example of what life looks like. So oftentimes we take on the personality of our parents and then we parent like they parent, and but we can be different, we can choose different. So what what like you said the most popular pack? What are the four in the most popular pack?

SPEAKER_01: 5:48

So I so I call that that popular pack gatherers because when you think of a medieval village back in the day, like you need a lot of gatherers, right? So that explains why there's so many in the population. We need their skills and we need a large amount of them around to be productive and have a society. And I had we have stags, beavers, elephants, and bears in that particular personality pack. And they all go, they're their core value, safety, and security, but they all uh achieve it in different ways, which makes them special, right? So, like I always say, like, you know, when you have meet someone, you're like, oh, that person's exactly like me. Wait, no, they're not exactly like me, but they're kind of like me, and they're definitely more like me than this other person. I think that's why I use these major four major groups first, because I think when you're like, okay, this person's really similar, and then you start realizing, oh, but they go about uh their world a little differently than me, then that just kind of determines the differences in us. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 6:41

So you've been doing this a long time, a couple of decades now. And what was what was the impetus to get you started? Like, where were you? And you thought, hmm, maybe there's something else here, maybe the the the traditional ones that we've been exposed to.

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

That's a great question. I it it got me I got started because I was such a weirdo in high school, but I didn't appear weird. I think it was one of those things where I think I appeared pretty cool and I was fairly popular, but inside I knew I was really different. And that was messing with my head a little bit. So I got into personality typing and studying it quite a bit. I studied Onneagram, like you had mentioned, Myers Briggs. And I started just using that in my daily life. But it wasn't until I started my education company where I started realizing one, this can be used like in a much more applicable way. And two, like there are problems with the established type methodologies. And that's when I started, I don't say testing it on my students, but essentially kind of like I guess testing on my students and started realizing, oh, I don't really believe in extroversion, introversion, because it doesn't totally make sense. Because one of the arguments people make is I'm extrovert in this situation, I'm introverted in this situation. And so I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. So I had to find an explanation for that, and that's where I got into the value system. Okay. Okay. Yeah. We're more outgoing when we value something, right? And we're more reserved when we don't particularly value that. And I think that's context is super important.

SPEAKER_02: 8:00

Sure. Yeah. For like, for example, for me, when I was in college, like the classes that I like were attracted to or liked performed better than the ones that I did. Like it's the same thing with people, right? Mm-hmm. Like you find somebody then, or you're doing something with someone that you value, then it's going to be more enjoyable than not.

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

Yeah. And that's and that's natural. The funny thing too is I had mentioned the gatherers before, one of their values of being is responsibility, but also the ability to do things and be to be willing to do the things that they don't particularly like doing. And I think that kind of value also gets pushed on all of us. We're like, no, you should want to do the things that you don't want to do. And I think that's not that works for them, but not always the best for everyone else.

SPEAKER_02: 8:45

For everybody else. Yeah. That's like, oh, why would I want to do something that I don't want to do? And I think that right now, in this time for people who are empty nesters, like that's one of the big things that I push, not push, is like my like I believe in is like you can do like whatever, right? It's your time to shine as an empty nester. You've raised the kids, they're off navigating life and trying to figure stuff out. Maybe you should try and figure stuff out now. So how do your how do your personality tests help people figure stuff out?

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

So first off, it fig it kind of like I guess gives you a kind of anchor. Well, it's different, right? Because some people, if they haven't figured themselves out, it's like an awakening, right? Where they're like, oh my God, like, yeah, like all these things I've been told that I wanted, and then I believe that I want it, I just ingrained in my head, I didn't really run in the first place. So that's kind of nice. But then there are those people who are just really open to finding things out themselves. Like you mentioned, empty nesters, generally they're a little bit more open because like, okay, I don't have to be the parent anymore, the good parent. I can get my have my own enjoyment in this lifetime. And so I generally focus on, okay, if you find your personality, it kind of like will I guess it will validate your feelings. I don't want to say you'll find it, but you'll validate those feelings you might have had, where especially if you're a couple and you know that your spouse like or partner likes something different than you, and then you you start feeling like, okay, it's okay to like that, and it's okay for me to like this, and let's just find this common ground based on our personalities where we can both enjoy the rest of our lives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:15

How I would imagine too that it might also help inform maybe common misunderstandings between people and partners too.

SPEAKER_01: 10:24

Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, I think one of those things, communication is super important, right? And I think, you know, especially you find it a lot with like this is not a partner example, but this is like a teacher student example. Oftentimes I'd mention teachers or gathers, or this is a parent. Let's say a parent child. If your parent is a gatherer and they tell like another version or another pack of mine are called hunters, and they make about a third the population, they seek excitement. So you can imagine like excitement, so the person who seeks excitement, the person who seeks safety are gonna like conflict. You know, and they don't get it. Like they're like, wait, I don't understand. Like, I wouldn't the person who seeks excitement is gonna be like, I want to go on a roller coaster because it makes me feel like I'm getting thrown around, I'm gonna die. And the person who wants safety is like, wait, why would you ever want to feel that way? That's wrong. And I have a lot of parent, or not parents, I have well, parents who say, Oh, if you eat, they tell their hunter kids, if you eat that cookie in the cookie jar, I'm gonna slap you. And the hunter would be like, hmm, okay, let me think about that. Is that cookie worth the slap? And the parent, the gathered parents, like, wait, no, I don't, I was telling you that because I'm the authority. I want you not to eat the cookie. I don't want you to think about it. And it's it's just that different way that our brain works that I think when we understand the differences, we start appreciating it and stop trying to like peg a what is that, a round hole or a square peg and a round hole. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:39

Yeah, trying to be something that we're not. And I think true, right? It's like oftentimes parents, when they start having kids, they do become a different version to try and say, you know what, I've got to focus on the kids now. I I'm not gonna like go after what I want to. And I think they oftentimes do do the mis, I don't want to call it a mistake. It is the square peg and a round hold fitting into a mold they think they should do as a parent, as opposed to just living their life and being who they were meant to be.

SPEAKER_01: 12:09

Oh, yeah. I'm sure it's really I'm sure it's scary, especially first-time parents. I like I'm not a parent myself, but I've interacted with thousands of parents in my lives. And I'm sure, especially that first kid, they're like, oh my God, I don't want to screw this up. So I gotta read all the books, or I gotta listen to what everyone listen to my parents and tell me how I should raise my kids when they just like I I kind of take the example from my own father who made sure to live his own life while also being a very, very good dad. But you know, you kind of have to do your own things because other I've found I've experienced a lot of times when parents put all those eggs in one basket, meaning their kid, and they kind of give up their own dreams and their own pleasures. Yes, yes. Uh then that kid just it's almost unfair to the kid because then they're just like, oh wait, so I have to you have to get a vicarious sense of satisfaction for me. It's all riding on me. Yeah, that's not fair.

SPEAKER_02: 12:54

Oh, and that happens very frequently. And then when the kids go after college, they're still waiting to be involved in their kids' lives instead of follow them. Yeah, instead exactly, don't follow them, but they do to a certain degree, right? Life 360 and other tools help them kind of see where they are, but it's like, oh, they get so invested in their kids' lives they forget how to get invested in their life. But you you just mentioned, and I'm curious what this looks like. Your dad lived his own life and was a great dad. What did that look like?

SPEAKER_01: 13:23

Well, as a really young kid, I didn't realize that, right? And then I started realizing, God, I'm in like I'm at grandmother's quite a bit. I'm at grandma's quite a lot during the weekends. And then as an adult, I'm like, I know what my parents were doing, they were having fun, which is okay. Like it's it's one of those things where as a kid, I never felt like, oh, like my parents are neglecting me. I'm sure there's a certain balance, right, with everyone. You don't want to just like totally just throw your kids away and never interact with them. But I do think maybe especially with this generation, there's a little bit more there's been overcompensation now where they're like, oh no, we were born as latchkey kids. So now we're gonna be like hovering and be the helicopter parent. And I think with my dad, like I know like I would go to his volleyball matches as a little kid. Sometimes he wasn't there during the weekends, where with my grandparents, I know that they're he and my mom are having fun, which I think is perfectly fine because I feel I do not feel neglected now as an adult, and I definitely didn't feel neglected back then as a kid. I felt like I had freedom to do whatever I wanted.

SPEAKER_02: 14:18

Okay. So for the people who are listening, and maybe they're gonna stop listening in a minute because they're like, oh, I don't believe in this personality type stuff. What's what's one of the biggest misconceptions about it that you encounter? And then maybe what's the truth behind it?

SPEAKER_01: 14:31

You know, I I think the biggest misconception is that we are we could we just put or putting people into boxes with personality typing. And I I mean, maybe some people do do that or believe in that, but I don't. Like, and it seems weird because people are like, oh, but you are putting people into categories. I'm like, one, I think everybody puts people into categories. I think with this personality typing methodology, it's just a little bit more nuanced way of doing it, whereas it's not as like clearly, oh, that person's like a type A, they're just bossy, or they're like the quiet, side, the silent, strong type. You know, I mean, to me, those are just so super simplistic. I think that's probably the biggest mistake that people make is that we're just putting in boxes. I believe that my methodology is more about like constantly discovering more and more about people and utilizing the knowledge that you might have already had with the thousands of people that you met and put that knowledge and intuition to use and hopefully reading my book will help people use their intuition and experience to get that information so that they start understanding the people around them better.

SPEAKER_02: 15:30

Okay. So have you done any? I mean, you've worked with lots and lots of kids over time and now you you have a life coaching practice, but have you ever done something where you went back and found a group of kids or a group of people who took your tests when they were maybe 10, 11, 12, but now they're in their 20s or 30s and retype them? Do personality test types change over time?

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

Yeah, that's a great question. Like, I'm not a big like I have a test on my website. I don't have a test on my book because I feel like the book is teaching you to be the test. So for me, like I never have a kid take a test and go, okay, that's what they are. I actually just do it myself. So if I reanalyze someone, I'm constantly doing it based on new information. So I'm always like, yeah, like figure if someone changes in your mind, then it's fine, right? But I don't believe that personality types change over time. If your personality type's changing, that means that either one, you are actually truly discovering who you are, or worse, you're becoming something that you're not based on societal pressure or outward external pressure.

SPEAKER_02: 16:31

Okay. Okay. And that happens a lot, right? Because so often as humans, we look towards external validation and we try to fit the mold of what we think we should be or how we should act. Or I know when I was applying to schools, my dad was very much like, you should apply here, here, and here. And I was like, Have you seen my grades and my SAT scores? Like, those are way out of bounds for what you know, what my skill set is in terms of the academic arena. But yeah, so but then being like, Oh, I don't fit a mold, right? And then having some thoughts and feelings around not fitting a certain mold or trying to be a certain way, as opposed to being like, no, I'm gonna live who and be who I am, right? And people are gonna accept me one way or another.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

And that's a difficult thing, right? That's why the artist thing is like having confidence in who you are. Like there's certain like once again, the gatherer types don't necessarily do that because life has been kind of like set up for them to succeed because their value system is the one that's being pushed on everyone. So generally throughout life, they're like, oh, this is great. What I want is what everyone else wants and what I should want. The only problem is then they don't self-reflect and then they get to V40, and then the midlife crisis hits, and they're like, oh my God, like this is totally different. Where other types, there's a one pack that is not that many people, it's about 8% of the population. They value self-knowledge. So they're constantly, that's the value system, they're constantly looking for that and trying to figure out who they are. Problem is that they're constantly questioning themselves, right? Throughout their whole childhood, they're like, oh my God, am I doing the right thing? I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. So they don't actually have a midlife crisis. I always like to joke, their whole life is a midlife crisis.

SPEAKER_02: 18:05

Right. They're constantly looking and being like, oh, is this me? Is this not me? Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? Yeah. They're constantly looking inward. Have you ever kind of looked at this might be helpful for people, like looked at a celebrity and been like, oh, they're, you know, a beaver or they're a stag. Or have you ever done something like that just to give people an example of what oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:25

I do that all the time. Well, fictional characters, so I'll use that with my students while I'll have them type fictional characters. I always say, use two fictional characters first because that's safer. Sure. Because it's been laid out for you, but then start doing it like with real people in your lives. And celebrities, of course, I guess I like fictional characters because we don't truly know about them, we just know what's been presented. Sure. But yeah, and then especially with relationships, it's fun because you're like, oh, this person's this type, this person's this type, and you can see the way that they get along really well and the way they don't get along really well based on the the two personality types. Okay. So fictional character.

SPEAKER_02: 18:59

Give me an example.

SPEAKER_01: 19:01

Like, I I have a Game of Thrones test on my website. I don't know how to do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched Game of Thrones, yeah. Oh, do you love okay? Well, Game of Thrones is great because it's got a whole universe of characters. And let's say Jamie Lannister is a fox personality type. Foxes are shrewd, crafty. They're not necessarily theoretical. They don't read a whole lot, they don't love to read a whole lot. They learn from experience because they're the hunter type, and hunters love excitement. So Jamie would be an example of a fox, but his brother Tyrion would be what I call Smith personality type. So Smiths seek information. And so you can see like they just be because they love each other and they communicate really well, but there's certain lines of communication that kind of get split up based on that difference. Got it.

SPEAKER_02: 19:46

So yeah. So Jamie's more like acting in the moment, looking for information, and then his brother is more Tyrion's more like, oh, I have to find the information first before I act.

SPEAKER_01: 19:56

Right. He's a reader. You know, like for the fox type that Jamie is, it's a very like, not say common one, but it's common in fiction because I think, especially action heroes, we kind of like that because they seek excitement, right? So Jamie Lannister is a fox, James Bond is a fox, Han Solo is a fox. Like when you think of like their skill set, they're really crafty, they're really confident. Captain Kirk, you know, like they they always think they can win based on the situation, but it's not like they think their actions through. They're not like planning these things out, they just gotta do. Right. And that's their skill set.

SPEAKER_02: 20:28

Okay. Okay. What's why that maybe isn't so common for folks, I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01: 20:34

Oh, that's um so there's a there's like eight types that are pretty rare. I mean, that seems weird, there's eight types that are rare, but like that make up about two percent of the population. So I'll just say an owl, because I can name a famous owl actually that everybody knows, and that's Einstein. Um I owls are part of the same pack actually as Tyrion Lannister, but they're a much more reserved animal within that pack. And owls are very like theoretical, they're very they they're very into themselves, not into themselves in that way, but inward, right? Like they they're big navel gazers, they might not really know what their physical surroundings are. I think there are stories where Einstein wore like the wrong pair of socks because he's like, Oh, I did I? I didn't I didn't really even think about it. They wasn't important in my life, yeah. Exactly. They're very internal, and so that's always the thing I I think of when I talk to parents and stuff, where kids are great, but they don't have to be your number one priority, because then when's the last time you heard of Einstein's kids? And he did have a daughter, and it didn't mean that he was a bad father, but he wasn't the father in a way that probably a lot of gatherers would think you'd have to be. He focused on his work, and because of that work, he's benefited not just his kids, but humanity as a whole. Okay. So that's a very rare type.

SPEAKER_02: 21:45

Yeah, I would imagine most in most partnerships, you know, in a family, I would imagine the primary caregiver is most likely a gatherer.

SPEAKER_01: 21:56

That yeah, I mean that they'll definitely take on that role. It'll definitely be like Like, I am going to do this. And then their kids are going to be like, oh my gosh, I do not want to hang out with this gather parent anymore. I want to hang. You know, the funny thing is the most common coupling is a gatherer and a hunter. And so, you know, hunters make about a third of the population, gathers may about a half. But it's funny because you think, because gatherers prioritize safety, security, they're really being into family, that a gather-gather would be the most common pairing. But no, it's gatherer-hunter because I think deep down inside we all realize that we want something a little different than us, not totally different, but something, someone who's going to bring a lot of something that we can't bring to the relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02: 22:36

Right. Right. That makes sense though, because it's kind of almost to a certain degree baked into our DNA, right? Where a lot of people are hunters and a lot of people are gatherers because that's how we survived. Oh, yeah, 100%. When we had like when we had to actually hunt and gather, right? Where there had to be people who were hunters and people who were gatherers in order for us to actually live on this planet.

SPEAKER_01: 22:56

Oh, yeah. You got that's and that's why I have it. And I only say a third of hunters, even though we do need a lot of hunters, because since hunting is dangerous, hunters die. So, and it makes sense. Like the hunters in our actual society are still doing very dangerous things. My sister's a hunter, and the very first job that she got out of college was working on an Alaskan deep sea fishing boat, which is actually pretty dangerous.

SPEAKER_02: 23:17

Deadliest catch.

SPEAKER_01: 23:18

Yes, like deadly. Now, she wasn't obviously one of the fishermen because she just didn't have the physical strength, but she was on the boat, she was like catching or observing what they caught and like resource management. But still, like if she's out there when it's a toll storm, that's pretty dangerous. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 23:35

So that just I just went, my brain just went totally in a different direction now. I was like, oh wow, she was on a deadliest catchboat.

SPEAKER_01: 23:42

You know, like that's yeah, and then funny, all those guys, she's like, We had a couple of them were ex-convicts, or one was like he's a he was uh indicted and then he just left because he escaped. And like, oh god, you're filled with hunters on that boat. So everybody's a hunter. So many people are a hunter on that boat. Oh yeah. I'd say about 100%. 100%. What type are you? I'm a shaman, which I haven't that was the type that I said mentioned they don't have a midlife crisis because their whole life is a midlife crisis. We we seek self-knowledge, not only for ourselves, but we seek to give it to others, which makes sense being a life coach and writing a book on helping people. Exactly. Makes sense. Yeah. So I would be I and specifically in the shaman side, I'm a baboon, which not a very flattering animal. I think when people complain about how they get an unflattering animal, I'm always like, hey man, my own animal is not super flattering, so do not complain about getting the beaver, okay? Yeah, there you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_02: 24:32

Well, I mean, I was born in the year of the monkey, so I get that all the time. Oh, I'm I'm a year of the monkey as well. There you go. Yeah. So it's like, you know, I lean into that, you know, a little bit of the mischievous part of the monkey for showing up.

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

Oh, that that's that probably tells a lot about your personality type, actually. Okay. And you'll notice that there's a couple, there's two primates in the personality at in the six out of the 16, and they're both fairly mischievous. Fairly mischievous people.

SPEAKER_02: 24:58

Sub subversive is how I would describe them. Oh, okay. Tell me more about that. Subversive subver subversive how.

SPEAKER_01: 25:38

Well, so Tyrion Lannister would be a chimpanzee. So I mentioned I'm a baboon. The other type would be a chimpanzee type, and chimpanzees and baboons, well, they're actually different packs. One is a smith and one is a shaman. And so they they're they value different things, but how it comes off is very uh subversive. Like they they're they don't particularly believe in any kind of authority per se. They're always poking at things that kind of discover more, like a chimpanzee will poke at authority to figure out more information because they're a smith and they value information. Uh other forms of chimpanzees, Tyrion Lannister, Sherlock Holmes. Have anyone seen the show House? House is a chimpanzee. There's a there's actually quite a bit, a lot of them actually in fiction. There's a lot in the fiction by compared to their percentages in the actual population. Oh, Iron Man, Tony Stark is a chimpanzee. Constantly poking Elon Musk is a chimpanzee. So they're they're they're some what's I meant again, some subversive, mischievous, they kind of like don't really have structure as something that's particularly important to them.

SPEAKER_02: 26:39

Okay. And have you have you personality typed your parents?

SPEAKER_01: 26:44

I I have. That's probably the number one thing that we should all do, just so that we know how do they mess me up? You know, like because oftentimes parents will have a certain personality type and they try to push in on others. My father actually was a chimpanzee. That's how I know that type very well. And they're once again subversive. My mother was a stag, which is like the principal type out of the gatherers. I mean, they by principle, I mean she was a literally a school principal, and that's kind of how they act in terms of authority. So you can imagine the conflict between someone who does not respect authority and a subversive versus someone who loves authority and status, and that's what they value. So I saw a lot of that conflict growing up as a kid. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 27:23

Okay. If if people wanted to learn more about like work, is that through the Utopia project? Is that different?

SPEAKER_01: 27:32

No, that's that's you can it's weird because I got two websites. Utopiaproject.com is where you can take the test, and there are a lot of articles on that website. Um, and then my other site is projectutopia.com, and that's where you can learn about the life coaching and uh things like that. But you can learn about the personality types on both sites, and people are like, why do you have two sites? It's like, well, I started one and one I had to use just to have a test on it, but the other one is a little bit more of like a storefront site. Storefront site. Okay. So the Utopia site is the one that has the free test. Yes, correct. And that's something that they can all take. And I always recommend if you like the information that you're getting and you like it, then please buy the book because that'll give you more nuance and a lot more complexity than the descriptions you'll see. Okay. How how long does it take to take the test? It's it's two or three minutes. Two or three minutes. Yeah, the way we designed it was something very quick. So once again, those hopefully it'll trick people because it's not one of those cookie cutter tests where it's like either this or this.

SPEAKER_02: 28:30

Because I think those rhythm for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 28:33

Yeah, like I think I know where this is going. Yeah. So ours is very, very different. So hopefully, I won't say trick people, but hopefully it gets people to not really think about what the methodology is. And uh, but once again, if it's if you read your description and it's not accurate, then I welcome you to take the test again or maybe look at some of the other animal descriptions and see. And are all of the animal descriptions on that site? Yes, they are. And it's a smaller version of what's in the book, but yeah, they're they're all there.

SPEAKER_02: 28:59

Yeah, I'm sure the book goes into more detail in terms of all the different things that people may want to know about, and that was the power of personality.

SPEAKER_01: 29:07

Yeah, and yeah, and it's not a it's not even though sometimes I speak in the most wonky way, but the book is a lot of more like stories and a lot of fictional uh references to Marvel, just so that people can kind of go, oh, this is fun. And because it personality typing should be fun, it's about the people in our lives. I I don't believe in making that some kind of like ivory tower intellectual pursuit. Got it, got it.

SPEAKER_02: 29:30

What's I'm just super curious, what's one thing that you've learned about yourself through doing this work?

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

Oh, that's a good question. I I would say that we're constantly growing and that we're the our perception of, especially myself, is constantly, I don't say constantly changing, but can change because I used to think I was another personality type when I was like 19 or 20. So, but that was basically because the outside, the external world was affecting me so much that it was making me act a certain way that probably was different than how I should be. And then I looked back and saw like video footage when I was five or six, and like, oh no, no, that's me right there. You as you are now, not as you were trying to be. Yeah, as a five or six year old, when you're on home video just with your parents filming you, you're gonna be close to what you truly are, at least a very young version of that. You're gonna be close to who you are. And I was super obnoxious. I'm like, oh yeah, that's probably similar to how I am now.

SPEAKER_02: 30:22

Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. For so I'm just it I just love what we're talking about because it just brings to light, like, oh, we this really is an opportune time for people to investigate themselves, right? They've raised their kids, the kids are off doing things, and it it's just such a powerful thing, I think, for folks to say, oh, you know, who who do I want to be now?

unknown: 30:45

Right?

SPEAKER_02: 30:46

Do I want to be who I've always been, or do I want to find out who I really am?

SPEAKER_01: 30:49

Yeah, it's never too late to really discover that. And for all those hunters out there who are like, Yes, finally my kids are gone. Let's just let's go travel the world. Because that's exactly probably what they're gonna do. And you want to do it now before you get too old where you can, and you know, travel becomes a little harder. But then there are gonna be those Smiths out there who's like, you know what I'd really like to do? I'd like to start distilling liquor. I'd like to build a st still, and like they might be into that.

SPEAKER_02: 31:14

Yeah, like a little bit more knowledge and adventurous in terms of being an entrepreneur. So yeah. Yeah. Is there one type that that people tend to lean to if they're entrepreneurs? Ooh, that's uh there's a few.

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

And it's funny, that's a great question because it's it's like, what type of entrepreneur are you? Are you someone who builds wants to build a system of efficiency, like tech basically tech giants now? That would veer more towards Smiths. But if the CEO type, there's a specific CEO type within the Smiths that is very common where they're more less about building and they're more about managing. Um but then of course they're the foxes who are like the best salespeople, and they're the ones who get the money. And so you can find the great thing is, like I said before, it's not what we do, it's why we do it, because why we do it tends to determine our role in whatever sector we're in. I've worked with different like tech companies and education and different fields, and you'll see different people within roles. Even education, I had mentioned gatherers make up a lot of teachers, but you figure out like if you go to talk to the PE teacher and the art teacher, you're gonna find a lot of hunters in that realm. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 32:17

Interesting. I know you you mentioned, I'm pretty sure you did some work with Disney. Yeah, they must have loved the concept of the animal personality type.

SPEAKER_01: 32:27

That's funny. Yeah, I I did it with a software engineering team because a friend of mine was a, I gotta get this right, a product manager, because apparently there's a difference between a product and project manager, which I did not know. And so it was really when you're it's funny because there are a lot of like Smiths within that realm, and Smiths only make about 8% of the population, but and software, you know, engineers, you're gonna get a find a lot of those, but different animal types within that realm. So one would be like the owl, so they'd be off on their own. They're just like, Don't bother me, I just want to do my thing, and I'll I'll get back to you in maybe three weeks. But then you'll have the killer whale, which is another Smith who's like, No, no, you gotta tell me now, I gotta have our whole plan set out, and you don't like keep constant communication. I can't I can't manage this person if I'm not don't know what the heck you're doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:12

So it I wow, just such an important, I think, way to look at like how we can look at our families if everybody has like one of our personality types and how to to manage a family, but also to manage a business or an organization, too. Like it's uh so powerful to know why people do certain things.

SPEAKER_01: 33:33

Yeah, so then you don't get so mad at them when they do something that you don't like. Because I think that's when we get the true conflict, is I think we we automatically accept that's probably the biggest misconception I should have said earlier, which is we automatically accept superficial differences between people. We're like, oh yeah, people have different personalities because this person is structured and responsible, and I'm more easygoing and flexible. But I think the big differences is that we we don't accept that other people can value things more than we do. And I think that can cause conflict, is when we're like, oh, this person is a bad person because their value system is all messed up. And it's like, well, no, they're just different. They're just different.

SPEAKER_02: 34:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think too, like that's like our personality type also drives the standards and expectations we have for everybody in our lives, like from our from our from our from our kids, from our spouse or our partner to friends, to you know, even people we don't really know. We just happen to pass them on the street. But very often we don't tell people what the standards and expectations are based upon our personality type. So it sounds like if we all know using your tests, then maybe we'd have a better way to have a conversation about no, this is kind of like this is how I like things, right?

SPEAKER_01: 34:44

Oh, yeah. I think, especially in obviously spousal relationships. I remember my father telling me a long time ago when I was a young kid, like by young, I mean like six or seven, which is an odd thing to tell your six or seven-year-old, he's like, you know, your mom's not that smart. But that's okay because he's really hardworking and this is her value system, and she she's worked her ass off to get where she is. And you know what? You can't get frustrated at her when she's not gonna understand some of the stuff that you're gonna start trying to talk to her about. And I was like, wow, like thinking about it now, like that's a kind of a brave thing to say because that you people might think, oh, it's take totally taking away the other parent's authority, but in fact, it actually gave the other parent more authority because they started respecting the differences, the differences, yeah. Yeah, so powerful, so powerful. She's a hundred percent more hardworking than I am. So, you know, that is something to be said.

SPEAKER_02: 35:30

Yeah, absolutely. No, that makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense. Eric, thank you so much for coming on the show and kind of uh helping us dissect a little bit about how personality types can help us kind of learn who we are in our second stage or second chapter of life, but also how it could even help us repair relationships or do better at work as such a powerful conversation. So I appreciate you sharing a little bit about what that looks like from your your vantage point. Thank you so much for having me, and hopefully it was somewhat helpful. Oh, absolutely. Love the conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 36:02

Thank you for listening to this emptyness life. Remember, this chapter isn't an ending, it's an invitation to redefine, rediscover, and reignite your life. If today's episode sparks something in you, don't forget to take that first step and visit this emptinesslife.com and click work with me to get the conversation started. Until next time, keep your heart open, your mind curious, and your spirit shining. This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact One Media LLC, all rights reserved.