SPEAKER_01: 0:00

And I think what I've been discovering over the past few years is that closeness really comes from more from intimacy. And I think the intimacy of being willing to share with your now adult children in a way that probably wouldn't have been appropriate when they were younger. But to kind of like share yourself and your backstory like warts and all, that just how could that help but engender like a deeper level of trust?

SPEAKER_00: 0:28

Welcome to this empty nest life, the podcast dedicated to helping you embrace this transformative season with purpose, passion, and joy. In each episode, we explore stories, strategies, and insights to help turn your empty nest into an exciting new chapter. Whether you're redefining your identity, pursuing new passions, or finding peace in the pause, you're in the right place. Here's your host, the Empty Nest coach, Jay Ramsden.

SPEAKER_02: 0:51

Hey there, my emptiness friends. Have your kids moved further from home than the 30-mile radius you envisioned while they were growing up? You know, that scenario where everyone lives in the same town, you see each other all the time, and Sunday dinners happen every week. It's an absolute dream, but more like pure fantasy, as for many of us that's not our reality as our kids spread their wings and fly. In studio today, I have Joanne McHugh, the creative mind behind the popular newsletter Things Your Mom Should Have Told You. It's dedicated to helping both parents and young adults find their way through life's challenges with honesty, humor, and practical wisdom. Whether sharing stories about parenting across miles and time zones, helping young adults prepare for the real world, or navigating her own evolving identity in the emptiness phase, Joanne offers a fresh perspective. Few others do, and we're gonna get into it right now. Joanne, welcome to this emptiness life. Thanks for inviting me. I'm so glad that you're here. We were talking a little bit before. You're not kidding when you say you have kids all over. Like the furthest is in London, but you have one in New York and down in Orlando as well. Right. How have you navigated all that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:58

Yeah, I I mean it hasn't been easy. I feel like I started out, my oldest is about to turn 28, and she lulled me into a false sense of security because she picked a university that was only 20 miles from home. And then my second daughter rolled in two years later and also picked the same school. So things were going really well for me. And then when my oldest daughter graduated, she had the nerve to accept or decide that she was going to pursue her dream and move to Manhattan after graduation. Um, and this was something that I didn't see coming, or I would say at least I kind of like hoped against hope that she would be drawn. We've always lived in the Philadelphia area in the suburbs outside of Philly. And I had hoped and dreamed that my kids would want to live somewhere within a 30-mile radius of the family homestead. Um so when the oldest shared the news that that was what she wanted to pursue after graduation, once I was devastated, felt a little disheartened, I'd say. And it was right when the pandemic first hit, so it was 2020. And if anything, a lot of you'd hear in the news like all these stories of like grown kids moving home with their parents, and it sounded perfectly lovely. So to have an offspring that kind of wanted to do the opposite and and move far away. Um, and I knew that she had her ducks in a row and she was organized and motivated enough that she'd be able to pull it off. So I knew it was just something that I was gonna have to come to terms with.

SPEAKER_02: 3:43

Well, yeah, and she moved she moved away from home in the pandemic.

SPEAKER_01: 3:47

In the pandemic, yep. Up to and also just to the the the biggest city in the country, too. So she had wanted a taste of the urban life, and she kind of like picked this picked the the most urban of cities, the largest city in everything.

SPEAKER_02: 4:02

So moved to New York during the pandemic. Welcome to New York, stay in your apartment.

SPEAKER_01: 4:07

Yeah. So interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 4:09

Now, what do you for the people who are listening who are like, well, my kid, I live in California, my kid went to New York. Philly to New York's not that far. What would you say to somebody who's comparing the the distance?

SPEAKER_01: 4:20

Well, I think we all we at some point, probably most parents are gonna have to grapple this with this in one way or another. And I would say whether the city is a hundred miles from you or three thousand miles from you, like it's a it's a distance. It's not like they're close enough that they could easily come over for dinner on a random Sunday. So I think just the level set. We all like deal with this in different um at different levels.

SPEAKER_02: 4:49

True, true. I I was just curious because I'm sure people will be comparing and contrasting. Oh, that's not too bad. Or, you know, oh California and my kid went to London. So that, you know, for each other. Yeah, right, yeah. With the with the newsletter, things your mom should have told you, did that happen like after the kids left? Were you writing that when they were still in high school? Where did that come into play?

SPEAKER_01: 5:09

I think that was like an idea that started to germinate when they were in college because as my daughters grew up and they started they started to experience a life that was like separate from from the family, that they're out there doing their own thing or whatever. We all remember, probably remember pretty well our own young adult years. And I would say the most consistent experience I had across college and into my 20s was so many of the things that unfolded didn't unfold like I expected them to. And it wasn't like there were I wasn't experiencing experiencing any major drama or trauma or anything like that, but just so many of the ordinary, just regular ordinary types of challenges or obstacles you encounter in your 20s, just I didn't expect them, or they threw me a little bit. And I think what it is, I think we tend to let once our kids graduate, we just say, Hey, we've prepared you, good luck, best of luck to you, and just figure that they're going to be able to handle it. And I don't feel like there's really any kind of there's much of an instruction manual that's out there for so it's kind of like good luck, you'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02: 6:25

So yeah, which is what we got from our parents, was good luck, you'll figure it out, and here's a quarter to call home if you need it. It's so FaceTime or texting.

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

Yeah, so it was something I started to think about, and like part of what I had to get comfortable with was just instead of just being performing in the role of mom and and always being optimistic and all encouraging them and uh set their sights high and have like a goal, something they're working to and everything else, it was always very upbeat. And it wasn't that I didn't wanted to change and not be upbeat anymore, but I also felt like I wasn't gonna be totally honest with them if I didn't talk more about the challenges that probably lay ahead ahead of them or just like allude to the fact that there might be potholes in the road to happiness.

SPEAKER_02: 7:19

So uh with the newsletter, they do your daughter, you have three daughters, right? Do the girls ever write in and or text you? I they're not gonna write home that way, but do they ever text you with ideas on what should go in the newsletter?

SPEAKER_01: 7:32

I wouldn't say that it's so much that they're like giving me specific topics or whatever, but I think uh all of us are just like watching their lives unfold, and I would say it's what they encounter, or maybe people in their circle of friends encounter, help inform what I write about because you know, just kind of observing and thinking of different things of like, oh yeah, I kind of remember when something like that happened to me or a friend of mine or whatever, and it's an opportunity to share some wisdom, you know, or similar experiences or tips. And I try to think of it not so much as just like the mom speaking down from above about how you should handle it, but kind of like once let's face it, like once your kids reach adulthood, it should start to become more of a friendship with them. So it's more in the vein of sharing things that if you're you know, your best friend came to you for advice about some situation they were dealing with, you know, it's it's sort of like that. So that's that's what I'm thinking about when I think about what I'm gonna write about on things your mom should have told you.

SPEAKER_02: 8:40

Do do any of their friends say, Oh, you gotta get it to my parents? This I this happens to me sometimes on TikTok when I do videos for parents that are more kid-based, and kids will be like, Can you send this to my parents? Does that ever does that ever happen to you?

SPEAKER_01: 8:52

Yeah, but you know what, it's always handy because there's usually a share button at the at the bottom. So certainly if they come across anything in there, it's something that you could send along. And frankly, that's what I hope that parents do if they're reading, you know, the newsletter and they see something in there that they think could be helpful to their son or daughter or whatever, that they would share it. And there's still that element, I think, with most parent and kid relationships where you respect your parents' opinion and everything, but sometimes you want an outside opinion, or maybe you're a little bit like cautious of wait, what's mom's motive on this? So to have sometimes a perspective from somebody else who has the wisdom of experience but isn't your parent, sometimes that has some more credibility depending on what the subject matter is.

SPEAKER_02: 9:45

Yeah, the profit in the own land kind of thing, right? People don't, yeah, well, that's mom and dad, you know. I'm taking it. Depends on the age, too, right? There gives you a point where they're no, I want to hear what mom and dad have to say, but there's also a point where they're like, no, not really hearing what you're saying. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you you're about 30 days-ish removed from dropping your daughter off at veterinary school in London, of all places.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Yes, yeah, yeah. So I I had the oldest that moved to Manhattan, and then the middle daughter came along and moved to Orlando. And again, remember, we're living in Philadelphia. So the the oldest was a two-hour car ride away. The middle one was a two and a half hour plane ride away. And then as it turned out, my youngest just started vet school in London. So she's 3,544 miles away. Yeah, not that I'm counting her anything. I just happened to know I happened to notice it on Google Maps. Um, so she's now a seven-hour plane ride away in five five time zones. So I feel I successfully adjusted to the oldest after a while, and then the middle one said, well, let's take it to the next level, and now we're at the you know, the extreme challenge level. So I will say, and I I would like to say if there's a parent out there who's kind of like if their child just dropped on the news that they're looking to move far from home or they just got a job that's across the country or whatever, is that you know it took a little time to adjust, but the good news is that you can adjust and adapt. And I would say that the whole experience hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be when I was going into it. And I think one of the things that I did in the beginning is I made the mistake of thinking that how close my relationship was going to be with my adult children was like a function of distance or proximity, like physical distance or proximity. And what I discovered along the way is that it doesn't really have much to do with that. While it's nice for them to be in the same town or 20 minutes away or whatever, there's really a lot other factors that have a have a lot more to do about how you feel about that relationship.

SPEAKER_02: 12:12

Oh, 100%. Wait, we moved to Massachusetts about four years ago for my wife's work when my our youngest, our daughter, was a senior in college and she stayed where she was going to school for two years working and then moved back to where we had lived basically since she was three years old. So now it's in reverse. We get that. When are you moving back? That's not not like us telling the kids like when are you moving here? It's like when are you moving back to what you know is home, which is interesting. So with the do you do you expect or do you have anybody who's thinking about moving back home?

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Well, I mean, the the the best news really is that recently the oldest who have been living up in Manhattan when her lease was up, she decided that she was ready to move back to Pennsylvania. And it was one of those things that she had said when she moved up to Manhattan is that she wanted to live there for a time, but that in the long run she saw herself moving closer to home, and that has come to fruition. So that's that's the good news. If you really you really like the idea of having kids closer to home, is that even if they move away, sometimes they do come back. And actually I saw a stat recently. There was something where I think it was the US Census Bureau did some kind of research with Harvard and they looked at Americans, adults age 26 and how what was their proximity to like where they where their family was or like where they grew up. And I think it was like 60% of 26-year-olds live within 10 miles of home. So some of it I think is there's like maybe a desire that either kids tend to go someplace else for college, or maybe they get a job, they want to experience a different part of the country right after they graduate. Maybe your odds aren't so bad that they will, you know, you'll be you'll be physically closer at some point again.

SPEAKER_02: 14:19

So interesting. We're cheating that stat because our daughter is technically back where she grew up, and then our son moved with us and he lives in Boston. So he's technically within 20 miles. So we're totally cheating that stat in some way, shape, or form. So I know in the work that you do, some of the I saw it's in your bio, you talk about like having this recurring dream of an overstuffed suitcase. And then what is tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_01: 14:46

Yeah, I think that that was really the inspiration for that led me to eventually create things your mom should have told you. And what started to happen once the girls were either off of college or preparing to go off to college, I kept having this dream where I was I was somewhere and I had this giant, kind of like the biggest suitcase you could imagine, like one of those old-fashioned hard-sided Samsonite ones, the ones that were as big as they come, and you weren't worried about like meeting the 50-pound weight limit on your airplane or whatever. So, and it's just was stuffed, and it had a lot of my things in it, and it had things that belonged to each of my daughters, and I'm like trying to sort through it all and get it organized, unpack. And I'm trying to do this at the same time that I'm planning like graduate a graduation party, and I couldn't figure out why I kept having this recurring dream, and then you know, you're trying to figure out what's the meaning of all this. And I think what it helped me to realize is that I probably had some baggage to unpack, if you will. And I think it all tied into this idea of you know, just being very aware of there was no like what to expect while you're adulting out there. Maybe there were certain things that I could unpack from my own young adult experiences if I was willing to be more candid and share those with my daughters. So that's what got me thinking about it. And I ended up writing a book that I privately published to be able to hand off to my daughter, I'm the oldest one when she was graduating from college, that kind of was just took her through all the things of my young, young adulthood that I wanted to share. So it was kind of like a memoir some of the things that I wish somebody had told me. So that was kind of the genesis of it all. And I think from there, that kind of evolved into the idea of, you know, it's it's it's certainly much easier these days to start an online new newsletter and be able to reach people. So that's how it kind of evolved evolved into things your mo your mom should have told you.com.

SPEAKER_02: 17:00

I'm curious how you When we grew up, things were obviously different, right? They always are than our parents. And the kids, but how do you like discern or fetter out? Oh, here's what I want to say, but here's what I gotta uh change a little bit to make it more applicable to them. Is there anything like that or is it more just generic things?

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

I I try to be aware, and it's you know easy enough with having three kids in their twenties right now. Like uh I'm I'm very aware of like the experiences, and I try to keep an eye on like pop culture and everything to have a sense of I recognize that the the world today is different from when you and I grew up. However, I think some of the situations that you encounter, you know, that doesn't change a lot generation to generation. So what I try to do and what I like to do wherever I can is to kind of share a story because I think stories are a wonderful way to kind of connect with the human mind, because I think that that's kind of how we're wired to respond to stories. And it's like, and people like love it when you know, people say, tell me a story, they never very few people are ever like, Well, tell me the facts, you know, where we wanna we wanna know we wanna listen to stories, and like even if you think about Jesus was going around tell telling the parables all the time, and I think one of the I suspect one of the reasons he did that is because he knew that when you tell somebody a story, they can listen and take away from it what they what connects with them or what they need to hear out of it. Yeah, so that's that's very much my approach.

SPEAKER_02: 18:41

Is there a favorite story that you have?

SPEAKER_01: 18:45

I there's there's so many of them, and and I what I try to do, I don't know if I have a favorite, but I think what I like to do is kind of like share the the the things that I learn or like the probably the stories that people like best is when you tell them the things where it's like something you screwed up or something like that makes you look less than sharp because I just think then they're more likely to like pay attention to them. So sometimes there's like funny stories about like the time that I dropped this huge I decided I was gonna handle providing a catered dinner for a hundred kids for the the high school play all by myself and ended up dropping this big vat of salad dressing in the parking lot. And my big takeaway from that is I should have asked for help. I should have gotten other parent partners to help with this. So the fun of telling relating stories where you look kind of ridiculous, but you learned a valuable lesson are great. On the other hand, sometimes I share stories like you know, what happened when at my wedding, my husband smashed the wedding cake when the bride and the groom feed each other the slice of cake. My husband decided that it was going to be funny to smash the cake in my face, and I was not anticipating that, and I didn't think it was funny. And what I learned coming out of that experience, and that was all about forgiveness. And I think exploring topics like that, so of course, and and that that particular piece is up on my website. You can go see for yourself. Like you can see the I like to use actual photos from my albums where I can, so you can see the cake photo, and that I think is a powerful story of here. You are with a very real life scenario, and how did you deal with that? How did you get over that sort of thing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:42

So that story could be about trust as well. Here you are, two people starting your journey together. It's like, ooh, can I trust even? Yeah, more stories. Yeah, I love that you share stories with your kids because it does shine a light on, okay, we're not, you know, we're parents, we're not perfect, we're humans, right? We're gonna make mistakes, but if if you can learn from our mistakes, or at least take a little bit of something away and I don't know, add your own to it in terms of a recipe to figure out how to live life, how powerful is that for kids?

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

And I and I think one of the things too, and like I said before, like the whole idea of like one of the things that upset me when I my my daughters were moving far from home was that I I kind of like equated like physical proximity with closeness. And I think what I've been discovering over the past few years is that closeness really comes from more from intimacy. And I think the intimacy of being willing to share with your now adult children in a way that probably wouldn't have been appropriate when they were younger, but to kind of like share yourself and your backstory like warts and all, that just how could that help but engender like a deeper level of trust, which then I think invites your children. To be more trusting and to that they can share more things with you than maybe they used to in the past.

SPEAKER_02: 22:39

Yeah, kids never want to see mom or dad's uh hair on fire moments when they're six, seven, and eight.

SPEAKER_01: 22:44

Yeah, no, that way they should they they should have like confidence and feel secure at home and that they're being led by a fully responsible person. But once your kids graduate from high school, they're out in college, they're beyond college or whatever, it's a time when you can change your approach and you probably have more important and valuable things to share. And it's not like you have to dump everything on them all in one go, but there's probably different instances that come up, and you sharing a story of like, oh, I remember when I was in my 20s, blah, blah, blah, and it's something that's relevant. I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02: 23:25

I agree. I might have to start sharing some stories. My daughter's always because I'm like this reserved, I don't know, mellow, easy calm. She's like, I feel like you were the rebel when you were a kid. I'm like, all right, maybe I'll have to start sharing some of those stories.

SPEAKER_01: 23:41

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: 23:42

To let them know. What's as you the kids have started to launch and they're obviously all over, and and there's an emotional roller coaster that comes along with that. How did you go through like maybe even embracing that emotional shift and how can others do the same?

SPEAKER_01: 23:59

Mm-hmm. Well, I think one of the things, and honestly, I think if you've spent like 20 or 25 years like fully vested in like bringing up kids, so much of your energy's gone into that. And that's what you're used to. You're used to putting other things aside, you've probably put like hobbies aside or whatever, like most of your energies are focused on getting through the week, helping them develop how they're supposed to develop, tending to your career stuff, your larger family, you know, whatever. Like you didn't really have time for other interests. And I think you kind of get in the groove of doing that. And when at first, when the kids go away, you're at a loss because you kind of have you're out of a job. Like you're like one of your primary jobs has been to be mom or dad, and you were very vested in that, and now it's like you've been given your pink slip. But I think if you can regroup and start to think about, oh, I have more time on my hands. Like, what could what could I do with this time? For me, I can't I've channeled some of my time into writing, which is some it was like an interest of mine or a talent of mine that I kind of like took and put up on a shelf for for years, like decades. And it's a chance to be able to go back and do that. And you know, to think about what could I do on a Saturday or Sunday just for the the sheer enjoyment of it, simply because I want to and not because I have to, or it's something I kind of enjoy, but I have to get it done anyway. So I think once you kind of like we're like, oh, okay, this is a new opportunity. One of the things I realized is that I really enjoyed that time when my husband and I were first married before we had kids. Remember the Ackerman dinks, the double income no kids.

unknown: 25:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 25:52

Life as a dink was really, really good. In fact, it was so good that I postponed our time for starting a family twice just to kind of like have more time on my dink pleasure cruise. So, you know, it was a real leap to finally become a parent. So, you know, in a way, now I have this time. Yes, I'm older, but you know, my husband and I, it's like your dinks again. So, what do we want to do? Like, how are we like to spend our time? What would we like to do on a weekend? And we don't have to think, does anybody need to be driven anywhere, or we've got to be at somebody's game, or other things like that.

SPEAKER_02: 26:29

So yeah, I'm laughing to myself because you said, Oh, the the dink pleasure cruise, and then you know, you have kids and then the cruise ship is literally on fire all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 26:39

Right. Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. No, it's part, it's at it's at it's docked for a number and it and it's good. And I and I wouldn't trade that for anything. So I think that's part uh what I feel is that like part of the thing with the adjustment to like having the empty nest, it just takes you a little bit of time to realize that all right, like you have more opportunities again. Like, how what do you want to do? Like, how could I spend my time well? So it's like you just gotta get used to reframing it.

SPEAKER_02: 27:09

Yeah, yeah, spending my time well. And I'm gonna dovetail that in. Like, spending the time well could also be starting to do honest storytelling with your kids, right? You said that's what you believe in, like almost like radical honesty about how life works to a certain degree. But for the parent who's I don't know if I could do that, what would you say to somebody?

SPEAKER_01: 27:34

Well, I would say if you feel uncomfortable about it, I'd say start small. I wouldn't go if your biggest thing that's gonna like really lock their socks off or whatever. I think some of it's almost like relational, right? Like, can you just share something even small from your 20-something life that would communicate to your son or daughter, like, oh, like dad does get it, or mom understands what this was like and like why this was hard or whatever. So just it doesn't have to be anything big, just just start small and give it a try. And I think it may feel a little bit odd at first, but then I think you can gradually get more comfortable. The other thing I would say that's been very interesting to me is I really I love a good throwback photo. And one of the things that I started to do as I started to work on things is I started to post on Instagram, and I didn't really feel comfortable sharing photos of me of like, oh, here I am, like heading to the supermarket or whatever. So I kind of went through my album and was pulling out throwback photos of like my life back in my 20s. And I think you'd be surprised if you try that tactic. Like, even if like you're sorting through your old photo albums and telling your kids the stories associated with with those stories, just because that's what's interesting. Then it's not just like some old photo in an album that maybe maybe they'll look at after you're gone. It's much it's much richer for them if you can share more of what your experiences were like during that time. So sometimes a little show and tell could help too.

SPEAKER_02: 29:19

I think that's a really approachable way, right? It's more of here's what was going on in my life at that time, as opposed to a story that may be a deep dark secret.

SPEAKER_01: 29:30

Yeah, just talk about ordinary life and just and just frankly looking through the photos of you in your twenties will help remind your child even of your parents weren't always born at the age they are. They went through this too. And again, I just think it helps with the relatability.

SPEAKER_02: 29:49

True, true, true. You you said earlier that you did a private publishing of the book for your daughter. Is it was it that just a one-off, or is it a book that you is that available to people?

SPEAKER_01: 30:01

Yeah, it was just something that I privately published because I wanted to get it out and I was determined to get it out right before graduation or whatever. So it's something that I've thought about, but I think what I've determined right now is that these different things that I that I really wanted to tell somebody or that I think that we should be somebody if if if it's not your mom, somebody should be telling you these things. The easiest way to get that across right now is take advantage of of of the internet and online. So that's that's like a routine place to share.

SPEAKER_02: 30:39

Yeah. Do you ever see things your mom should have told you becoming a book?

SPEAKER_01: 30:44

Um it's possible someday. When I look back at what I wrote five years ago, I think probably anybody would do this. Like you see revisions and things or like more things that you remember that you would want to tell somebody about that. So I love books, I've always loved to read, I love the process of writing and creating things, so you never know.

SPEAKER_02: 31:07

You never know. We'll we'll be sitting here waiting for it to come out because you're so passionate about it the topic of something that people need to know. You talked a little bit before, I think we even started hit record that you don't find it. The stories of, hey, here's a little bit of piece of wisdom. Not necessarily even advice. Just I went through this and it might be helpful to you. I'm just curious, like it this whole journey, writing them the newsletter, the girls going off, like what have you learned about yourself throughout the journey?

SPEAKER_01: 31:45

Like I said, it was a process. I know it may seem right now like gee, she seems very calm about the fact that her daughter's now living 3,500 miles away over in London, and I won't see her again until Christmas time. She's she will be home. Is that I guess the thing about life, like as I look back and reflect on the different experiences, there's all your life is always gonna feature some kind of like greatest challenge in some form or another. And it's it's a matter of like figuring it out. You usually don't figure it out right away, you don't come up with a solution, right? You try some something, it works or it doesn't work, or you've got to modify or whatever. But like I think I used to think of it like those obstacles or those struggles were like a bug or something, like a problem that I had that I had to figure out how that this was like out of the ordinary. And I think what I've come to realize is that that's that's a feature of life. It's not a bug, like it's supposed to be in there, and just like if you think about the characters in any kind of like drama that you're streaming, they're always they're always grappling with something, they're trying to work something out. So I think what I've come to realize is that we're always gonna find ourselves in different situations that we're not comfortable with. You usually will figure a way out of it, through it, whatever, how to adapt to it. And that that's just how life rolls.

SPEAKER_02: 33:17

Yeah, yeah, so true. What's before I let you go, Joe, like what's your biggest motivator in life right now?

SPEAKER_01: 33:24

I think that I would like to make a habit of recognizing that something's always going right. Because I think that we as humans are wired to focus on something's always going wrong. And back in the cave like back in the caveman days, like your survival depended on it. You had to like recognize the threat, solve the problem, like it was like a life or death scenario. And I think since we're wired that that way, we're geared to look for the problems in life and like how to solve them or fix them or neutralize the threat or whatever. But I think if you go through life too focused on that, you do miss whatever problems you have in a week, there's also there's a lot of stuff that goes right. And I'd like to be somebody who recognizes that and is like grateful for the things that are going right instead of having the negative stuff front and center.

SPEAKER_02: 34:24

Yeah, that that's a fantastic motivator for anybody in life. So I thank you for sharing that. Joanne, this has been a fabulous conversation. I appreciate you shining a little bit of light on the things your mom should have told you and how we deal with kids when they are growing and flowing and going off in all different directions. Folks, check it out. Joanne's newsletter, Things Your Mom Should Have Told You. We'll put it in the show notes. You could Google it right now if you wanted to. It'll pop up, Joanne McCue. And uh it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today.

SPEAKER_01: 34:54

Yeah, it was delightful chatting with you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 34:59

Thank you for listening to this Empty Nest Life. Remember, this chapter isn't an ending, it's an invitation to redefine, rediscover, and reignite your life. If today's episode sparks something in you, don't forget to take that first step and visit this empty nestlife.com and click work with me to get the conversation started. Until next time, keep your heart open, your mind curious, and your spirits shining. This empty nestlife is a production of Impact One Media LLC. All rights reserved.