Building Resilience for Empty Nesters

Speaker 1 0:00

We need resilience like never before . Our kids need resilience more than ever before . I feel strongly . It should be taught in every school , in every workplace , in every family .

Speaker 2 0:12

Welcome to this Empty Nest Life . Join Jay Ramsden as he leads you on a transformative journey through the uncharted seas of midlife and empty nesting . If you're ready to embark on this new adventure and redefine your future , you're in the right place . Here's your host , the Empty Nest Coach , Jay Ramston .

Speaker 3 0:32

Hey there , my Empty Nest friends . One key to life is being resilient and , as a parent , it's something you've learned along the way in raising your kids , whether you realize it or not . All those late nights , the worries , the figuring it out it all helped you develop your resilience . In being a parent , you even taught those same lessons to your children , but then , when your kids had out the door , all those lessons seemed to leave your brain in an instant . Well , today we're in studio with Valerie Burton , the author of Rules of Resilience . You may recognize her from the Today Show or CNN , where she is frequently featured as their go-to life coach . Valerie is also the very first coach I hired , so I'm thrilled she's here with us today . Valerie , welcome to this Empty Nest Life .

Speaker 1 1:17

Thank you , Jay . It's so good to be with you and especially to talk about this topic of empty nesting . We're like partially there , but not completely . You've got one more , You've got one more to go .

Speaker 3 1:30

So you're an in-between nester , as they may say . Yes , yeah , and I think it's so timely of a conversation because so many people just went through college drop-off and move-in . They're all back home and your book is coming out here in the middle of September . What caught me about the book ? Obviously , there's 10 rules that you have , which they're all phenomenal , but the one I think that's most important for us to dive into right now is rule number two , because you know , resilience is one of those things that , yes , we know it inherently , but when those old heartstrings get tugged during the emptiness transition , I think it just flies right off our brains . But the second one , that was , choose thoughts that strengthen you , was one that I thought well , let's start there and see where this conversation takes us .

Speaker 1 2:15

Yeah , you know , a huge piece of resilience is about adaptive skills . I talk about this , this very simple framework for for building your own personal system of resilience , and probably the most powerful adaptive skill is how you think in the face of a challenge , of a change . What are you saying to yourself ? And I can give you an example of this . We dropped off my youngest bonus daughters I have two bonus daughters and a son are my youngest bonus daughters . I have two bonus daughters and a son .

Speaker 1 2:47

My youngest bonus daughter started college in August , but she's not far from home . She's in downtown Atlanta . But our oldest is a junior and my husband flew with her to the Netherlands because she is doing a study abroad . This is the kid who , in middle school , when I had a speaking engagement at UGA in Athens , georgia , which is two hours from where I live , said she didn't want to go to UGA because it was too far away . Now she goes to college in Rhode Island and she's studying abroad , on another continent . And the thoughts right Like it can be hard enough to drop your kid off at college , but to drop them off on another continent and go back home .

Speaker 3 3:30

Ah , yes , yes , I have a couple of people who've reached out in my circles . They live , like in the UK and their kids are coming to the US and they're having the exact same thoughts like , oh my god , they are a continent away . And what does that mean for me as a parent ?

Speaker 1 3:46

Yeah , so one I think it's important , like for one of my , like literally putting this rule to use one of mine was noticing the thoughts . What am I saying ? Cause I was catastrophizing .

Speaker 3 3:58

Of course , yeah , welcome to being a parent , right .

Speaker 1 4:02

Very , very short period of time , but sometimes what we need is when we need perspective , right . So perspective can be talking to others who've been through something similar , talking to those who are familiar , like the number of people who've been to Amsterdam recently , how safe Amsterdam is . But , more importantly , she's a cautious young woman . She handles herself well . This is , you know , study abroad is something I thought about in college . I never did and I'm excited for her . And you know , just even in our , in our , in our WhatsApp conversations , you know what she's learning , what she's noticing , even just after a couple of weeks .

Speaker 1 4:41

So , choosing thoughts that strengthen us in our situation is noticing . Okay , what did we already teach ? What are the good things about this ? And hey , it's only natural to have fear when you stretch way out of your comfort zone . It doesn't mean run in the other direction , doesn't mean we made the wrong decision . It means I've got to manage those thoughts and I should expect them . Which , jay , is the first rule of resilience Expect . The unexpected . Part of it is expecting that things might be hard or feel difficult , and that's normal , which kind of lowers the temperature on whatever you're feeling in terms of stress , because you realize like what kind of parent would I be if I didn't have any concerns ? Of course you have concerns . This is just part of the process . Now let's just keep

Choosing Thoughts That Strengthen You

Speaker 1 5:32

moving forward .

Speaker 3 5:33

Yeah , I think it's such an important one too . It's like I can imagine parents saying , oh hey , I wish I would have known this rule before and kind of would have been able to implement it . But how do I even pass it along to my kids ? Because they're going through it , they're trying to be resilient , they're trying , they're in a new spot , learning everything , new , new daily routine , new people , new places to go , and I think it's like how do we help our kids with it as well ? So have you done that with your child who's gone off to the Netherlands ? Have you imparted some wisdom from rule two ?

Speaker 1 6:05

Well , the exciting thing to me is I was concerned that she would be anxious , right , and so it's been more of my questions how are you feeling about this ? How are you ? You're ? You know , I know you're in a place with a lot of other students who are from overseas , but you're in your spot by yourself . Are you okay with that ? There's not a roommate . She's like oh , actually , I like the time to myself and she's talking about who she's meeting , all the different countries that they're from in this Dutch university that she's going to . She's fine , and that actually , for me , was very helpful , I think in part because she made the decision . This is something she wanted to do and we wanted to support her in it .

Speaker 1 6:46

Now there are sometimes challenges where you know maybe they are struggling . So , with my son , for example , he was starting some new stuff yesterday and we actually had a conversation about his thoughts . He had his first day of cross-country practice in middle school , and so you know we were talking about like , what were the thoughts that weren't working ? How did you change them ? And he said today , probably the hardest thought , mom was , I wanted to do cross country and I had to run three miles .

Speaker 3 7:20

That's a tough , tough thought yeah .

Speaker 1 7:23

And he said and so I was thinking I can't do this he said but I did notice it and I just told myself this is hard , but I can get through this . And I thought , wow , and that really was from conversations we've had over time , I also share where I struggle . So I think that's helpful because I think sometimes and you know , if you grew up in a household where your parents didn't share their thoughts , their negative emotions or talk it through , you could feel like the adults always have it together .

Speaker 3 7:56

Oh , absolutely .

Speaker 1 7:57

Even as I was writing this book , I would tell Alex like mommy's been procrastinating , like it's all in my thinking it has to be written perfectly , which I know is not true . So I'm giving myself permission today , alex , to write badly . Editing's a separate , that's a separate gig . I get to just get it on the page . It doesn't have to look just right , because that's not the part we're going to publish , but I got to have somewhere to start . I think one of the things that can be helpful for us as parents is acknowledging how hard it is for us as I try to help my son in particular , navigate electronics like they're addictive . So I'll say , yeah , call me out , alex , if you see me on the phone too much . He does not hesitate to do so .

Speaker 3 8:45

I love that .

Speaker 1 8:46

But I'll just say it's hard . Like this is designed to keep you holding it , so it's not just you . I'm not fussing at you about electronics . This is hard for everybody . So we've got to notice it , We've got to give our brain breaks . I have found that that works very well for young kids , but also for the older ones , because you're having real talk about real struggles and you're not pretending that you have it all together and they need to just figure it out .

Speaker 3 9:14

Yeah , I think what you were talking about parents and kind of showcasing how to be resilient or share about their feelings or their struggles and I know , like our generation of parents , our parents that was probably not the norm whatsoever . It was probably the minority of folks who actually demonstrated that for their kids . So for people who are listening , I imagine they're saying , well , my parents didn't do that . How do I even get started in being resilient for my kids or showcasing what that looks like ? What would you say to them ?

Speaker 1 9:47

Well , authenticity is a hallmark of resilience . So I'd start with honesty . You know I'm realizing maybe I haven't always shared with you some of my struggles and things that are hard for me , and I'm really working on being more resilient , in part because I want to help you do that . Let's talk about what that means , right , and even acknowledging like your kids have been resilient , so helping them identify like what's the biggest challenge you've overcome . How'd you do that ? How might you apply what you learned there to this current challenge ? Like really affirming them for what they're doing well , to build up their confidence that they already are resilient All of us are , sometimes we forget how we've been resilient and to pull those lessons into the current challenge . So I think , being very authentic and saying I'm on this journey and it occurs to me that there's this part of parenting that maybe I haven't really done very much and I'd like to start . So they're in on that change and they're not going . What's going on with dad ? He's journaling . Now he's coaching .

Speaker 3 10:59

Exactly , Exactly , I think well , I love it for my kids because I talk about this in my world is like you have to be an example of what's possible for the kids , and I think learning how to this I think plays right into rule number four is showcasing like how you can actually can control the controllable and just accept the rest . I think that's a huge part of growth and in this emptiness life , I think parents lose sight of that . What's been your experience in writing the book and sharing that rule

Controlling the Controllable, Accepting the Rest

Speaker 3 11:32

with folks ?

Speaker 1 11:33

So control the controllable and accept the rest is one of my favorite rules . It taps into the research around locus of control having an internal versus an external locus of control . The most successful resilient people have an internal locus of control . Having an internal versus an external locus of control . The most successful resilient people have an internal locus of control , which means they focus on what they have control over . Things like I have control over my attitude . I have control over what actions I choose to take .

Speaker 1 11:58

Next , you may have control over apologizing or forgiving somebody , depending on what the situation is . You don't have control overizing or forgiving somebody , you know , depending on what the situation is . You don't have control over , for example , the decisions your company is going to make or you know what's going on in government , et cetera . Like you can influence as much as possible and you can make choices that help influence , but in terms of the things you actually control , you control what comes out of your mouth help influence , but in terms of the things you actually control , you control what comes out of your mouth . You control whether you decide to get a little more sleep or engage in some healthier habits or learn something new . So really , looking at what do I control ? It lowers your stress level . It definitely makes you more resilient , because you're not wasting energy over focusing and worrying about things that you absolutely have no control over , like other people .

Speaker 3 12:51

Oh , exactly Right , they have no control of what they say or what they think .

Speaker 1 12:54

Yeah , if I could just get him to do X or to change that or to stop doing . And if there's somebody in your life that you are thinking of as I say that and you've been doing that for a year , two years , 10 years , it's like except the rest , that does not mean that you approve of it . It doesn't even mean that you're okay with it or you're embracing it . It means that you're looking at it and you go . I don't have control over that . It is what it is and you go . I don't have control over that . It is what it is . Now , in light of what it is , how do I want to show up ? What choices do I want to make ? What adjustments would help me adapt better or still get to my goal in spite of ? That's what it means to control the controllable .

Speaker 3 13:41

I love that , and I was just talking to a client about this just yesterday . We were going through access to me , right my brain , my time , my energy and they were struggling with that concept . So I think that's I think that's a really good way to kind of share that with folks today . That's how you can control . The controllable is like what do I have control of Yep I have , that I have control of how people have access to me is like what do I have control of ? Yep I have ? I have control of how people have access to me , have access to my time and my energy , and it's such a . It's a great example of that .

Speaker 3 14:13

For for I've run into people who maybe you said your daughter . It was her choice to go to the Netherlands to go to school , but some parents push their kids towards a certain school and sometimes it doesn't always work out right . The kids are miserable and then the parents feel guilty that they pushed in that direction . And so when you talk about choosing thoughts that strengthen you , some of those thoughts are really detrimental , I think , to the relationship . What would you say to somebody who's in that spot ? Because I have people who listen who are in that spot .

Speaker 1 14:44

So give me an example of like one of the thoughts that might be coming to a parent .

Speaker 3 14:48

Oh , absolutely I screwed up . My kid's life is probably the number one . Thought they're miserable and I did this to them .

Speaker 1 14:55

So , um , first you got to define screwed up their life . Let's put it all into perspective . Sometimes we have to do that from a place of gratitude . I'm grateful that my kid went off to college . I'm grateful that they're healthy . I'm grateful that I'm having and I'm noticing that maybe this was not the right choice . Can I have an honest ?

Speaker 1 15:25

conversation about that , right , so I think when we make mistakes , like we're human , we do that and in fact , pushing a child in a particular direction often is coming from a place of trying to help , even if it's misguided . We want the best for our kids and as parents , I really believe the vast majority we do the best that we can and we can look back and go .

Speaker 3 15:57

I wish I hadn't done that because , hindsight , of course , we see very clearly . Oh yeah , absolutely , monday morning quarterback right being able to see exactly what the path may have been .

Speaker 1 16:02

The question becomes so what now ? Right , I cannot control what I did in the past , where we are now , but I can control where we go from here . I can control next steps from my perspective , and this sometimes means big changes . It means open , honest conversations , right , and so I think that's really important . You know , I spent my first year of college as a cadet at the Air Force Academy . I had pretty much decided that that wasn't the direction I wanted to go . It was all I knew .

Speaker 1 16:37

I was born in an Air Force base my dad's retired Air Force and it was an honor . And we moved to Colorado when I was in the fifth grade , wrote my term paper on the Academy as a ninth grader and said that's where I'm going . But you know , somewhere along the way after I'd applied , I thought maybe that wasn't it . But once I got in , you know , my parents thought otherwise . Plus , it was a complete full ride . It was such an honor , it was like , and my dad was enlisted . So this idea that , like my daughter's going to go , she's going to be an officer , and it didn't go well , and I was there for a year and decided to leave . I'm not even sure . I was probably well into adulthood , before you know , had the conversation with my mom . Like you , told me I was not going to these other schools . I got a scholarship , so she's like I did . There were a lot of dynamics to that . At some point , if we're , if we're super honest and open , forgiveness is needed on both sides , right .

Speaker 3 17:37

So important yes .

Speaker 1 17:39

And then like , is there a lesson in this for all of us ? Is there a message ? Like I can't say I regret it . I learned a lot about myself and then I chose a new path and even in that new path , you know , I was doing some things that were like overcompensating for not having good grades there and oh , I'll get through college fast and I'll finish early and I'll go to grad school and I'll finish at 21 . And then , like , oh my gosh , I just started enjoying the journey . Like , even in all of that , there are many things that happened because of that first year , and yet life turned out fine .

Speaker 3 18:13

Yeah , More than fine , I would say .

Speaker 1 18:17

Yes , more than fine , and I don't think that was my path . I think that is an excellent path and I think you know we're very blessed to have people that serve , like my dad did for 24 years , but that wasn't my calling . We just have to accept that life doesn't always go as planned , that , of course , if we could go back and make different decisions , you might make a different decision about that ex that you you know that you were with for way too long . Or you know some career choice that you made because you felt pressured into it and through all of that . If you grow through it and you don't just go through it , you come out with wisdom , you come out stronger . If you look to like that's huge .

Speaker 1 19:05

I mean there's this research around post-traumatic growth , which I think is fascinating . A lot of it comes out of the University of North Carolina . And when people understand going into difficulties , if they understand that PTSD isn't the only option because we all think of that , like that can be very real . But if you realize I'm about to go through something really hard and I could grow as a result of it , that people are actually more likely to grow , they actually lower their stress and anxiety because they go into it saying I know this will be hard , but I could actually glean something good out of it . That doesn't mean that you would choose to go through that awful health challenge or lose the job or whatever the case , but on the other side of it it's possible that you're expanded in some way and you're better in some way , and that in itself is a big part of what resilience really really is .

Speaker 3 20:08

So , yeah , this happened for me instead of happened to me , I think is the way people often talk about that . It's interesting when you're talking about that scenario , when you think about kind of rule number five , I think this maybe plays into . It is like when people are going through it in the moment , it's like Ooh , how do I , how do I rally my resources when I'm in the thick of it ? What might that look like for them ?

Speaker 1 20:33

Yeah . So that rule is rally your resources , which is relationships , it's past experience , it's training , it's access to resources , anything that helps you get through the challenge , money you saved . And so it's , I think , really important in the midst of your challenge to ask that question what past experience can I lean on ? What resources do I have ? Who do I know ? Who's been there and done that ? Who do I know of ?

Speaker 1 21:06

You might not even know the person , but there may be an example of someone who successfully moved through a challenge and you take lessons and you apply those . And the access to resources I think is really big too , because sometimes it's not that you have the resources , but there may be somebody that you know and they're like , oh , you need to go talk to this person . Or hey , I have this , you can use this to get through this particular challenge . And I think in the empty nest life , I think one of the most important things is having your peers that are going through the same thing and talk . You know who can you talk to , like there are going to be others who have similar feelings or they might have a different , better perspective .

Speaker 3 21:53

Right , that you need that because oftentimes , if things aren't going well in the emptiness transition , people don't talk about it because they are afraid that everybody else seems like they're just having a ball and I'm not . I'm struggling with this and so it's like I'm not going to talk about it . Why would I put myself out there and talk

Rally Your Resources and Don't Pretend

Speaker 3 22:16

about that instance ? But I think your point is valid . It's like no , there's resources out there , including your friends and family .

Speaker 1 22:55

Yeah , yeah , and so that means being willing to ask for help , being willing to have those conversations , is a big part of it , and so you got to work those resilience muscles , you know , and sometimes that's doing things that are uncomfortable , things that you wouldn't typically do Resilient people do not go it alone uncomfortable things that you wouldn't typically do Resilient people do not go it alone .

Speaker 1 23:15

It's a great point . There are these extra bonus points for I didn't have to call anybody . I didn't have to . You know , don't do that . Rally your resources , find that community and sometimes it means you know , set those boundaries . There may be somebody that you're giving a lot of room to speak into your life . It's way too much negativity or pessimism and it's not helping you move in the right direction .

Speaker 3 23:43

Yeah , that's a great point , and I think to . Another step in this is when we were talking about people not sharing what they're struggling with . Another that's what I love about your book it just so ties into everything is that don't pretend and don't defend . All right , If you are having a time , bad time , don't , don't pretend that you're not .

Speaker 1 24:02

Yes , yes , yes . So that was one of the first rules that I that I developed Don't pretend , don't defend . Don't pretend things are okay when they're not , and don't defend things that you don't need to defend because it was a mistake , it was something you did wrong . It's kind of like you saying , if you pushed your kid in one direction and you realize now it's not good , don't keep defending that . You can say I was doing what I thought was going to be the best option . I was trying to help and I'm realizing now that perhaps it wasn't . It wasn't the most helpful option and I'm sorry . So let's talk about where we are right . Let's talk about the overall vision . I mean , ultimately , as parents , what are we trying to do ? We're trying to help the kids launch . We're trying to help prepare them so that they can succeed in the world . Right , be resilient . So when you defend things that you're wrong , so just say you're wrong .

Speaker 1 25:16

Of resilience , this particular rule don't pretend and don't defend is essential . And so where in your life are you pretending things are okay that aren't , and where might you be defensive ? And you know when you're defensive , because it's like somebody pushes a button and you know you talk a lot . You talk about why it's really okay and you're . You know you get upset very easily and take a breath . Be honest , find the grain of truth . Sometimes people can criticize us harshly and all of what they're saying might not be true , but there might be a small piece that you could acknowledge and there's an opportunity there for growth , for reconciliation , for being more resilient .

Speaker 3 25:54

What a powerful two sentences too , I thought , and I'm sorry .

Speaker 1 26:01

I thought and I was wrong .

Speaker 3 26:04

And it's okay , and to be able to exemplify that for our kids , to be able to show them it's okay to say I thought this and you know . You know what I was wrong , this wasn't the right approach .

Speaker 1 26:16

It's very healing in our relationships .

Speaker 3 26:20

So good .

Speaker 3 26:21

You know it's very healing when you tell somebody you hurt me or this was not right , and the person takes a breath and says , yeah , I see why you feel that way yeah , yeah , I see why you feel that way and one of the things , uh , in my leadership training when I was working in school is we worked with the center for creative leadership in greensboro , north carolina , and they taught us sbi , which is situation , behavior and impact . Just to approach somebody , say , remember this , here's the behavior that took place and here's the impact it had on me . You can also work that in reverse to say here's the situation , here's my behavior and the impact I feel impact it had on me . You can also work that in reverse and say here's the situation .

Speaker 2 26:57

Here's my behavior and the impact I feel like it had on you . Yeah , so good , it's powerful .

Speaker 3 27:00

Two things you talk about which I think people , if they pick up the book and look at the chapters , would be like what the heck are those things ? Which is the growth gap and the energy gap . What are those .

Speaker 1 27:10

Oh , my goodness . So this is . This is like two of these things that I kind of stumbled upon and really developed , uh , over time and realized how much they resonate . So growth gaps we all have them . We tend to set goals as um , performance goals as very measurable , like I can see whether you got it or not . You wanted to save a certain amount of money , you wanted to have this certain relationship , you wanted to get this certain job , you wanted to launch this business . Um , that , they're very easy . You want to lose this amount of weight , right , but growth goals are . Answer the question how will you need to grow in order to get to that ?

Speaker 3 27:48

goal .

Speaker 1 27:49

And we have to have a growth goal that goes along with the performance goal . And we have to have a growth goal that goes along with the performance goal . Otherwise , like we'd already be there , if we use weight as an example , if I ask you , how do you lose 15 pounds ? Pretty much the answer is going to be some combination of move more , eat better .

Speaker 3 28:08

Exactly .

Speaker 1 28:09

We all know that . That doesn't mean that we do it right . So how will you need to grow ? Maybe it's in consistency , maybe it's knowledge , maybe you don't know what you're doing . That's kind of messing some things up or making it harder to get more fit . So if you understand how you'll need to grow , that becomes the engine for you to get to the vision . So a growth gap is the gap between where you are and where you will need to be in order to actually get to the goal . It's very enlightening because we can get very frustrated , focused on the steps .

Speaker 3 28:49

Exactly , and that's where getting uncomfortable , being comfortable with uncomfortable thing comes into play . Right ? That's the difference between where you want to be and where you are now . Yeah , that's so good .

Speaker 1 28:58

just even one growth gap can move the needle can really help you get unstuck Energy gaps , which that's the 10th of the 10 rules is , I think , like for me , this was super eye-opening . We tend to not notice

Growth Gaps and Energy Management

Speaker 1 29:30

how big our challenges are and how much energy it actually takes to get there , and so when we get burned out or we just can't seem to find the motivation , it's often an energy gap . When your goal or the vision you have for your life is a 10 , or maybe the challenge you're currently dealing with is a 10 . And then I say , well , with right , Is it 10 ? And then I say , well , on a scale of one to 10 , how much energy do you have right now ? And you're like it's a five . So you got a 10 challenge and five energy .

Speaker 1 30:04

At some point you're going to run out . You are not going to get there and you're wondering why things that perhaps used to get you excited you dread them , why you can't seem to force yourself to do what's needed . You may need to literally replenish your energy . You are not only operating on reserves . You've drained the reserves . You may need more sleep , you may need a better diet , you may need to get more exercise . You may simply need more positive energy in your life .

Speaker 1 30:35

We know positive emotion makes you more resilient and when you're dealing with negative after negative after negative , like it drains you . Positive emotion helps you make better decisions , set better goals , you persevere longer , you even live longer when you have more positive emotions . So we've got to manage the energy and be really sensitive . Know your kid has left or your kids are now all out of the house and that may have energized you and you haven't noticed how that's shifting , how you feel every single day . So maybe some self compassion , maybe just kind of getting in touch more with what energizes you , finding those old goals and dreams Right . So being sensitive that changes in life change your energy , require different amounts of energy and you want to be able to manage , manage those energy gaps .

Speaker 3 31:45

I love that . Yeah , it's just like your what do we call it ? Like your social energy tank , right when , when you're dealing with other people . And what does that look like , Whether you're an intern or extrovert in ?

Speaker 1 31:59

Yeah , you're like , oh my gosh , all these people , all these questions , all this small talk . You know that you have to replenish . You may need some time , some more time alone . I used to say during the pandemic that collectively , as a society , we often were not noticing one how the kind of what was going on globally was impacting our energy Absolutely .

Speaker 1 32:26

How the change and how we were showing up or the lack of social contact we were having compared to the past . All of those things you may need just to schedule in a nap once a week you may need to pay closer attention to . Hey , maybe I need to go to bed 30 minutes earlier , or maybe there's some commitments that I need to let go of for a season so that I have the energy to direct in a new way .

Speaker 3 32:52

So good Now in your book , like my favorite rule of all of them .

Speaker 1 32:58

You have not said the favorite one yet .

Speaker 3 33:00

My favorite one is find the opportunity in the challenge , because it's something I talk about all the time . The one true constant in life is change , and you know , if you look at the word challenge , change skirts the outside of it . You know the letters , yeah . So I always say you know what , in every challenge we have in life , we have to change in some way , and with every change there's always challenges embedded in it . So that's why I love that rule , but tell me more about it , because I think that's the one people will have the hardest time grasping .

Speaker 1 33:32

Yeah . So I think this rule gives a lot of hope Find the opportunity and the challenge . If you think about your biggest challenge right now , if you think about the challenge of empty nesting , the change of it , just ask yourself coach yourself with this question what's the opportunity in this challenge ? This doesn't have to mean you like everything about the challenge . You might not like anything about it , but I guarantee you there's an opportunity in it . Maybe there are some things the last 18 , 20 , 22 years that you've put aside and in this new season you could pick that back up . Maybe there's the opportunity for more rest . Maybe there's opportunity to connect with your partner more deeply .

Speaker 1 34:16

Or maybe you're the single parent who you know you haven't had a partner in a long time and you didn't want to introduce that , you know , into the , into the mix while you're still raising your kids , like I don't know . Maybe it's opportunity to pursue a different career or just whatever . I love asking this question because it takes your focus off of the obstacle that's in front of you to say , huh , what is the opportunity that I get ? Because this thing exists and I think that's a gift . It's you looking for the gift in it and unwrapping that gift and savoring it .

Speaker 3 35:01

Yeah , what's the opportunity I get to have from this experience ? I love that . I love it . It's so good . Yeah , the other one too . And then my final favorite , which I think is the bonus one .

Speaker 1 35:12

I'm liking that . It sounds like you got a whole bunch of favorites .

Speaker 3 35:16

Oh , I do yeah , as an author .

Speaker 1 35:17

I'm like yes .

Speaker 3 35:18

So good .

Speaker 1 35:19

Yeah .

Speaker 3 35:33

That ?

Speaker 1 35:33

Yeah , that was my ultimate favorite was number eight . Yeah , find the opportunity challenge , but the bonus one , the pay it forward . I'm a big pay it forward guy and that one I love as well . So how can people like they read the book and they're like , oh yeah , this all works for me how can they pay it forward ? Think this is the highest level of resilience ?

Speaker 1 35:43

Where we are resilient , we learn our lessons , we glean the opportunity and the challenge and then we're able to share that with whether it's with your kids , with coworkers , with friends who may be in the midst of challenges to actually create a more resilient world around you and for all of us . And we think about the world we're in right now , like there's more distraction , there's more uncertainty than ever for most of us in a generation , I mean , I'm going to say you know , generations before had a whole lot of other things I'm glad we don't have to deal with . But right now , like the sheer volume of change in the last 20 , 30 years , even the last five years I mean we've been it feels like one thing after another of unexpected challenges and change . We need resilience like never before . Our kids need resilience more than ever before . I feel strongly it should be taught in every school , in every workplace , in every family .

Speaker 1 36:53

It's why , for me , paying it forward was how do we take the research of resilience , the common sense

Finding Opportunity in Challenge and Paying Forward

Speaker 1 36:58

of resilience , create a framework and these easy to remember rules so that , even if all you're paying forward is it's the opportunity and the challenge , or you should expect the unexpected , like you shouldn't expect that . You're going to A to Z and it's a straight line . So if you expect the unexpected , you're not so shocked . When things don't go as planned , you change gears and you go okay . What rule do I need to apply ? And I think the other thing that happens is for me and I talk about this in the book is I look back to who paid it forward for me , because I guarantee you there is somebody . If you're resilient , there is somebody from your past that either inspired you , gave you some access to resources that helped you move ahead or get unstuck , and in that is gratitude and perspective .

Speaker 3 37:54

So good .

Speaker 1 37:56

It's powerful . I look a lot back to my own grandparents and like what their life was like compared to me . Even as a kid , it gave me this sense of strength , Like look what you're coming from , Look how far your grandparents came and doors they opened so that you had opportunities that they could only have dreamed of . Like you got to run with that , you got to take that baton and keep going . So , even when things haven't gone as planned , it puts it in perspective . It does . It does Problems I'm dealing with . Like they didn't even have the opportunity to have these problems .

Speaker 3 38:36

That's a great way to frame it . I love that so much . I'm curious , before I let you go , what's one thing you've learned about yourself in writing this book ?

Speaker 1 38:56

I think I had a struggle in the process that I had to use my own rules that I was writing about to overcome , and I was resilient in doing so . My struggle was and it was a shock , because I've been teaching on resilience since I finished grad school in positive psychology in 08 . And the struggle was well , if you think you're going to write like the go-to book on resilience , then that has to mean that you're the most resilient and you've been through the worst things and you've been through some stuff . But like there's other people that blah , blah , blah , and so I realized I'm just human , like everybody else . I'm not professing to be perfect at it , professing to be perfect at it .

Speaker 1 39:48

What I am professing is that my passion is understanding how successful people think differently , do things differently , researching all of that and then packaging it in a way that's like , hey , this is real practical and I really believe it will help you , because success requires resilience . It's not just for the negative things we go through in life . If you want happy relationships , if you want financial independence , if you want better health , if you want to change careers , any of those success things require resilience . So I think what I had to learn is the stuff I'm writing about . I deal with it every single day and I've put all these rules to the test and I believe in them , not just because they're rooted in research , but because I use them . And yeah , I don't use them perfectly , but when I get back on track with them , they work .

Speaker 3 40:41

Yeah , that's it . I love that point and folks like the success piece in your emptiness life is learning how to be more resilient , not just for you , but for your family and your kids and everyone else . So , valerie , thank you so much for being here today and allowing me to pay it forward for all you've taught me in both my personal and my coaching life . It's been a true honor and privilege to have this conversation with you .

Speaker 1 41:05

Jay , I've so enjoyed the conversation . I feel very blessed to have been a part of your journey , your coaching journey and to get to have this conversation with you today has just been awesome , so thank you .

Speaker 3 41:17

My pleasure , folks . Rules of Resilience . Out September 16th it's going to be available in all places you can buy your book , so run out and grab it . It is a must-have in your library . Thanks again , valerie , appreciate you being here .

Speaker 1 41:30

Thanks , Jay .

Speaker 2 41:31

Are you ready to start living and enjoying your empty nest years ? If so , head over to jasonramsdencom and click work with me to get the conversation started . This Empty Nest Life is a production of Impact . One Media LLC . All rights reserved .